Arao 4-Valve Heads [Archive] - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board

The Big Show

05-02-2002, 09:07 AM

*laughing*

Believe me, one of the main reasons I made such an effort to get these heads was the fact that I knew if anybody could finally put the myths to 'rest' it could be me. Mainly because of my setup and my desire to always want to do something different. My car is pure race and doesn't need any of the 'creature comforts' people want in a street car so I knew whatever needed to be done to get these heads to work could be done on my ride. Turns out there really isn't anything that needs to be "done" so to speak...

At this point, the pistons are on the way (took over 6 weeks from JE) as well as the cam and my big dominator to feed these monsters. I'll be back to fuel injection in a few years but for now I need simplicity so I'm running a carb.

All questions are welcomed. As you can see from my site I don't really hide anything unless I have been told specifically not to divulge info...

------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed (http://www.araoengineering.com) 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down (http://www.fbody.com/members/GreenMeany/index.htm)

"Ain't no future in frontin'..." <---This You?

MonteSS427

05-02-2002, 05:13 PM

Actually Arao says these are a direct bolt on deal. ?

rskrause

05-02-2002, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by MonteSS427:
Actually Arao says these are a direct bolt on deal. ?

I looked into these. A very liberal definition of "bolt on" for sure. In theory, you might actually be able to install these without removing the motor, though not on a 4th gen. There is some block machining needed for pushrod clearance, but I suppose it could be done on the car as could the cam swap, etc. that is needed. Most people wouldn't consider that a "bolt-on". Heck, installing a new bottom end is just a matter of bolts and a little machining too.

What scared me off more than anything was that in additon to the heads and everything to go along with them I would have also needed a new engine mangement system to run FI (I have no desire to go back to a carb on a street car). This would raise the parts cost alone to the $10K range and then the thing would have to be tuned.

The result would have been less power than I have now, unless I kept the blower. With the blower, I really think it would be too much power (never thought I'd say there was such a thing) for a street car in two respects. First and most obvious is traction. Since I can break street tires loose in 4th gear at 85mph now, what would another 200hp or so do? Second, I like to shift. And AFAIK there isn't a street transmission available that will handle that much power. Same issues with the rear, what posi could I use? I sure don't want a street car with a spool.

These heads seem totally awesome, but except for a race car do not make sense to me. You can make as much power much more easily and cheaply with a blower. And as I opined above, a power adder plus these heads would really not be practical on a street car. I suppose you could do a nitrous setup and run NA on the street? Hmmm.....

My hats off to the folks the desire to do something this wild, but it really isn't for most of us.

Rich Krause

------------------
'95 Z-28 383 with Vortech, nitrous, etc.
"1FASTZ28"

[This message has been edited by rskrause (edited May 02, 2002).]

MonteSS427

05-03-2002, 12:40 AM

You don't need a cam swap to run these heads. Although you can get a custom cam ground to better match the power characteristics of these heads, it is not necessary. They still use standard style cams. The valves are operated by special rockers.

Other than that, I agree with you Rich. These heads have truly insane power potential...mainly because of the fact that unlike conventional heads that hit a power peak and then drop off.....these heads just keep on going, and going, and that power curve becomes a line aiming straight for the sky, without stealing from the low end. Though I do think that a 1000HP blown setup with these heads (i know, you can get much more than 1000 out of it....but keeping it limited here) can be driveable on the street. Especially with a good fuel injection setup and a centrifugal style blower like Vortech.

unstable bob

05-03-2002, 01:13 AM

Yeah, yeah, yeah....Give Simpson all the limelight. I can't believe unstable bob's name isn't mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread! Just remember, punks....WHO'S YER DADDY??????

http://members.aol.com/Fredrick518/Photos/DominBob.jpg

------------------
"unstable bob" gable, JAT, MON.

AMERICAN ROAD WARRIOR!

WEAPON OF CHOICE:
1979 Black WS6 Trans Am
Engine: Oldsmobile 455, bored .030 {462 CI}
Induction: Performer Intake. Demon 750 Carb
Exhaust: Hooker 1 7/8 Headers, unstable engineering 3 in exhaust w/ X pipe. Power Effects mufflers.
Cam: Comp Cams 280H
Transmission: Fat Buddy Racing TH400 full manual valvebody and trans brake, TCI 2500 stall converter.
Rearend: GM 10 Bolt, Eaton Posi unit, 3.42 gears
Front Suspension: VB Composite Monoleaf set up, Tubular upper and lower control arms, Carrera adjustable shocks.
Rear suspension: VB Composite leaf springs. Carrera Shocks.
Wheels And Tires: F: Compromotive 17 X 9 w/ 255.45.17 BFG Comp TAs
R: Compromotive 17 X 11 w/ 315.35.17 BFG Comp TAs

NJ Plate: BF HAMR

396 CI LT1 w/ Dominion 32V heads still in the works.

rskrause

05-03-2002, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by MonteSS427:
You don't need a cam swap to run these heads. Although you can get a custom cam ground to better match the power characteristics of these heads, it is not necessary. They still use standard style cams. The valves are operated by special rockers.

Other than that, I agree with you Rich. These heads have truly insane power potential...mainly because of the fact that unlike conventional heads that hit a power peak and then drop off.....these heads just keep on going, and going, and that power curve becomes a line aiming straight for the sky, without stealing from the low end. Though I do think that a 1000HP blown setup with these heads (i know, you can get much more than 1000 out of it....but keeping it limited here) can be driveable on the street. Especially with a good fuel injection setup and a centrifugal style blower like Vortech.

Good point about the cam, but I think it'd be silly to spend $5K on heads and another $5K or so on "ancillaries" and then skimp on a cam!

I know an engine with these heads and a centrifugal SC or turbo could be made perfectly "drivable", but would the car be? Like I said, if 700hp breaks the rear loose at 85mph what would 1000hp do? I can't figure out what tranmission could be used (no automatics for me, please) and what rear end? I guess a better word than "drivable" would be "usable".

Believe me, I am not being critical and I hope it isn't a case of sour grapes. I admire people like "Unstable Bob" and Bobby Simpson who are willing to try this stuff out and share the experience they gain with us mortals. I guess I'm just thinking out loud and convincing myself that I made the right choice when I decided against these heads. Maybe I'm a little jealous?

Rich Krause

------------------
'95 Z-28 383 with Vortech, nitrous, etc.
"1FASTZ28"

80ci-to-350ci

05-03-2002, 02:21 AM

Yeah, I've been thinking about this lately. I just got done talking to a V8 friend of mine about this. I imagine that these heads simply allow the airflow to maintain higher velocity throughout a larger power band. Torque peak is flatter, and it allows you to rev more.

The big show, do yourself a favor and go back to EFI someday, you won't regret it. When you work with RX-7s you get used to the idea of ripping out the entire wiring harness, and buying a full stand-alone ECU. The stock ECUs just can't cut it. 2nd gen's used MAFs that were way too small (and there is no upgrade alternative), and maps suck (ie. rich and lean spots throughout the rev range, and stock timing maps will KILL a motor because when you advance port timing, you need to retard proportianlly).

There are many benefits to a properly tuned EFI setup, and the only downfall being cost. I know a place in AUS that will sell a brand new Haltech E6K w/ flying loom for $780 shipped to the U.S. in 4-6 days. Another $120 for GM sensors (most RX-7s use these too http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif), and you're set.

This way you benefit from complete control over the engine's behavior throughout the entire rev range. Say you get a large cam that decreases low-end driveability. Advance the timing at that portion of the map until A. torque begins to drop, or B. You begin to register knock. Advancing the timing in lower rev ranges does a huge amount to increase chamber velocity (ie. torque). With that you gain much low-end response. Doing this throughout the rev range you get a much SMOOTER/HAPPIER engine. Torque curve will be flatter, and peak torque will be raise TREMENDOUSLY. Right around torque peak is where you tend to retard a bit, but once air speed drops (ie. past torque peak) you can begin to advance it again.

Of course then there is fuel. A good head design will allow you to run higher CR on pump gas, due to swirl (increased mixture distribution). Tuning an entire fuel curve allows you to run leaner ie. create high chamber velocity throughout the useable powerband. It also improves gas mileage and driveability at cruising, low load situations, as you are able to lean the mixture considerably (which, is also being more thoroughly burned because of timing advance http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif).

Anyways, if you already knew all this, sorry to take up space. Just giving a suggestion. If you need some advice on EFI setups, let me know http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

-Brian

[This message has been edited by 80ci-to-350ci (edited May 03, 2002).]

RedIrocZ-28

05-03-2002, 04:21 AM

Actually Brian, I think we could use your brain over at thirdgen.org's DIY Prom tuning board. Just let us use your brain..come on..let us use it http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif I learned more from your post than I have reading for hours on that board.

The Big Show

05-03-2002, 08:33 AM

*laughing out loud@my boy UB*

As far as we know, Unstable Bob and I are the Dominion brothers of the web so we must represent the brothahood well http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

Man, so much fun talking about the dom's but I know you are ALL ready for some action. Bob you hearing this? Let's get to it bro...

Rich, I totally understand all your points man. But as you know, the centrifugal blowers make their boost linearly so the same traction problems you have now, wouldn't be any different with the dom's. BUT (big but) you would have some serious benchracing bragging rights on the dyno http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif I think for nominal use the T56 is more than capable of handling the power output but to go and beat on it at the strip has long since been proven by LJ not to be a winner. And your right about the cam, you will definitely want a custom ground cam after you see the flow numbers. I had a cam picked out and after I flowed the heads we had to end up calling Lunati and having them custom ground one cause we were COMPLETLEY off.

To call these heads a bolt on is like saying you could bolt on an engine rebuild in your driveway. Doable, but not exactly feasable. I think Rich covered all the aspects necessary as far as the block machine for the pushrods but why the need for an aftermarket computer?

Brian, your pretty new so you haven't gotten a chance to follow my legacy here for the past couple of years. It's been nothing but heartache man and last year I almost gave up and sold all this stuff. I had Vortech supercharged 383 w/speedpro and on board laptap, blah blah blah...After my "mishap" I decided to ditch all the fuel injection and go back to simplicity. I might have to hook up with you on that Haltech though for that price. Geeze http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif

------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed (http://www.araoengineering.com) 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down (http://www.fbody.com/members/GreenMeany/index.htm)

"Ain't no future in frontin'..." <---This You?

rskrause

05-03-2002, 09:37 AM

Bobby: I am pretty familiar with the stock 4th gen PCM. The biggest issue with my mythical (or is "imaginary" a better word?) centrifugally SC 1000hp Dominion/Arao setup would be injector size. Biggest injectors you can use with the stock PCM are 50lb's. Not nearly big enough. You could LJ's low impedance injector driver "kludge" (I mean that admiringly, for sure). But trusting my $20,000+ motor to something of that sort would make me a little nervous. You might get away with 50lb injectors on an NA 4V setup, as they should be good for ~800hp.

Anyway, the stock PCM has other limitations. There's the 7,000rpm limit for one. This would be more of an issue with an NA setup, as with the way I like to setup blower cars you don't need to rev the snot out of them.

And there's the issue of spark current. You can't run high voltage through the Opti for very long (I have proved this twice), and considering that my dream motor would be a boosted and/or juiced 1000hp setup, you would need a hefty spark! So you would need to ditch the Opti, IMHO. And AFAIK that means a complete aftermarket system.

Not having fully thought this through, there are likely some other issues as well.

This is fun to think about, but again, I'm in awe of someone with the cojones to actually do it http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

Rich Krause

------------------
'95 Z-28 383 with Vortech, nitrous, etc.
"1FASTZ28"

[This message has been edited by rskrause (edited May 03, 2002).]

Chris B

05-03-2002, 12:18 PM

FWIW I would stay away from haltech unless you are running a rotary engine - we have one on a 97 dakota and it (E6K) is the worst EFI I have worked with yet. Speed Pro/Fast with a wideband (or without) it 1000x easier ot tune and setup. The old Accel DFI is a breeze compared to the haltech.

And then there are the bugs - did I mention that the logging software crashes if I log more than 3 pages of data. There "MAY" be a fix for this, but I have to pay for a firmware update to find out - no guarauntees.

Chris

brain

09-12-2002, 03:54 PM

Curious Rich, do you run an FMU? Are 50lb injectors enough for 700 RWHP? Also, if you did have the Arao's you would have that much on motor. I think it would be a lot more drivable. My friends 650 RWHP Mustang is just ridiculous, even on monstrous 18s. Sounds just like your car, breaking the tires loose in 3rd and 4th. Anywho, I talked to Russ Arao for a while on getting a set of the heads for a Mustang, a friend and I were gonna build a 418 Stroker with Araos, and he figured we could expect around 700 RWHP. Not too bad, but when you consider all the extra $$ you have to spend to get there, its not feasible for us. It WILL have them someday tho. He was gonna give us an EXTREMELY good deal on a set of Yates style heads, but we would have to change direction after buying some parts to do that. Also, what kind of injectors are the stock LT1s? Peak/hold or saturated? I have not had any trouble doing a simple conversion with Honda ecus to change between them, but it seems the KLUDGE is a little more involved. I didn't keep up with it as well as I should have.

BIG SHOW - Do these heads fit ok in the confines of 4th gen? What about with Hooker headers? I will have a set of these heads one day, no question.

UB & Big show - I am willing to sacrifice my car so everyone can see how the Araos perform. All you have to do is send them to me! I know, it is very generous for me to do so, but I feel that everyone will benefit from me having a set of these. Especially me at the track! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

BlackHawk T/A

09-13-2002, 04:41 AM

Correct, the hookers will not fit. On their website www.araoengineering.com (http://www.araoengineering.com) it lists what headers you must use (Stahl).

Rob94hawk

09-14-2002, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by BlackHawk T/A:
Correct, the hookers will not fit. On their website www.arao.com (http://www.arao.com) it lists what headers you must use (Stahl).

dead link

NVMYZ28

09-14-2002, 03:28 PM

http://www.araoengineering.com/

------------------
Jeff C - Utah
1994 383 Z28 M6
Bored, Stroked, Splayed, and Sprayed!
www.nvmyz28.com (http://www.nvmyz28.com)
Utah F-body Assoc. (http://www.ufba.org)

Gord's Green Z28

09-19-2002, 03:05 PM

Wow, I first read about Arao 4 valve heads for F-bodies 10 years ago. Never thought I'd actually see or hear about anybody using them.

Re: Krause and transmission, would a Lenco be about the only manual that could handle the power of a 1000 HP setup? And how hard would it be to fabricate and install one in a 4th gen? I'm thinking somewhere between insanely difficult and next to impossible.

....and I thought spark plugs were a PITA on these cars. You guys are way over my head.

rskrause

09-19-2002, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by brain
Curious Rich, do you run an FMU? Are 50lb injectors enough for 700 RWHP? Also, if you did have the Arao's you would have that much on motor. I think it would be a lot more drivable. My friends 650 RWHP Mustang is just ridiculous, even on monstrous 18s. Sounds just like your car, breaking the tires loose in 3rd and 4th. Anywho, I talked to Russ Arao for a while on getting a set of the heads for a Mustang, a friend and I were gonna build a 418 Stroker with Araos, and he figured we could expect around 700 RWHP. Not too bad, but when you consider all the extra $$ you have to spend to get there, its not feasible for us. It WILL have them someday tho. He was gonna give us an EXTREMELY good deal on a set of Yates style heads, but we would have to change direction after buying some parts to do that. Also, what kind of injectors are the stock LT1s? Peak/hold or saturated? I have not had any trouble doing a simple conversion with Honda ecus to change between them, but it seems the KLUDGE is a little more involved. I didn't keep up with it as well as I should have.
SNIP

B: I am using a Carroll Superfueler and the stock FP regulator. The SF drives 3x92lb low impedance injectors. The stock PCM uses high impedance injectors and the injector drivers will overheat if you use low impedance pieces.

I still think that these heads are awesome but that unless you are somehow restricted from using forced induction or just want to be different they aren't a sensible choice. But OTOH what's "sensible" about a street car 600+rwhp anyway ;)

Rich Krause

396jon

09-20-2002, 02:17 AM

Its been a long time but it things are going good.....and it looks like I ll have time for cars again soon.....

I ran the Dominion heads that Bob has.....It was in a 93 formula about what 4 years ago? I started it on 58 lb injectors.....and it took only a couple days to figure out that they were not enough....so I put 72's in it....

It did take some alterations.....at the time it was a lot....looking back.....or considering what I know now....not that big of a deal.....

The heads are awesome....plain and simple...

1000 rwhp is not far fechted at all...keeping tread on the tires is the hard part..... I m one of the few peopl eto have run them....and I would do it again.....

kevkop94TA

09-20-2002, 08:41 PM

GODDAMN people!! Quit slacking off and someone get these heads going. :( :cry:

;)

Eric Bazan

09-22-2002, 02:46 PM

Not quite Arao's, but interesting technology nontheless. www.coatesengines.com. Spherical valve heads. Anyone know someone that has these?

Eric Bazan ;)

brain

09-22-2002, 03:05 PM

396jon, any more info you would care to tell us about your dominion powered motor? LT1 based, SBC, CID, etc. etc. Power? E.T.? I have been waiting forever to find someone that is or has actually cranked a car with these. Anything you would be willing to tell would be great. Feel free to make it a really LONG post. :D

396jon

09-23-2002, 08:52 PM

Brian, The engine is now in the hands of Bob Gable but I did run it in a street car....It was/is (depending on what Bob has done) a 396 LT1 . It uses 5.8750 rods, a .900 base circle cam... I think it was 242 About 550 lift....Cant really remeber....I m sure Bob would have itr somewhere....

I made the headers....and built the engine....etc.....It had custom lenght pushrods.....(one of which exhuast I think , turned out to be a off the shelf lenght for a foed clevland or windsor or something.....)

The intake was a well ported LT4. The heads flowed somwhere around 360 cfm at 500....again I d bet Bob has this stuff written down somewhere...I ran it with an electromotive tec 2......and 72 lb injectors....The responced was incredible....light switch like.....It would /could easily do 50 mph burn outs in early tuning stages....

The ac box had minor grinding....the ac acess bracket had grinding and redrilling...., the canton pan would rest on the casting ridge on the rack inpinion if it wasn t ground down.....I did have ac/heater etc......To be honest I don t remeber a lot now.....in relation specifically to the heads....

The cam was a solid roller....the heads use forked rockers....bucket adjustable......so running valves took awhile.....the head bolts run directly through the intake so a plug goes in the roof of the port after the head is installed...I was never concerned about the irregular pushrod geometry after running the heads.....( alittle before) but they had no problems.....at all....it was just the fabrication to do it....being the first one and all......The heads are converted old style heads....basically plugin gthe water ports going to the old style iintake....

The heads are nice.....and flow incredible...esspecially at low lifts.....I had ported heads....with I think 1.45 intakes....thats two of them....again Bob has em now and he sure nows better then I at this point.....I would run them again ......but probably in a more user freindly chassis......

94FlamdS10Blazr

06-11-2003, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by unstable bob
Yeah, yeah, yeah....Give Simpson all the limelight. I can't believe unstable bob's name isn't mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread! Just remember, punks....WHO'S YER DADDY??????

http://members.aol.com/Fredrick518/Photos/DominBob.jpg

my daddy isnt that ugly! lol
j/k Bob

The Highlander

06-12-2003, 03:38 AM

Hey its been a year... Any thoughts on theese heads?

Mr. Z28 73/97

06-12-2003, 01:30 PM

What are the flow numbers for the Dominion heads are they different from what's in the literature?
And what cam specs did you go with @.050

Mr. Z28 73/97

06-12-2003, 01:36 PM

No Lenco isn't your only choice you could go with a G-force street lethal 5spd www.g-forcetransmissions.com or a Jerico 4 or 5 spd or a Liberty 4 or 5 spd trans.

rskrause

06-12-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Z28 73/97
No Lenco isn't your only choice you could go with a G-force street lethal 5spd www.g-forcetransmissions.com or a Jerico 4 or 5 spd or a Liberty 4 or 5 spd trans.

What different people consider streetable varies a lot. I have driven the G-Force, and I don't consider it streetable. The Lenco is, but there are problems with it. Heavy, big, expensive to name a couple.

Rich Krause

Jimmy17

06-12-2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by rskrause
What different people consider streetable varies a lot. I have driven the G-Force, and I don't consider it streetable. The Lenco is, but there are problems with it. Heavy, big, expensive to name a couple.

Rich Krause

would love to hear more about this rich
i remember hearing you say in your quest for the 1000hp street tran you looked into the special t-56 used in viper gtsr... 800ft-lbs rated

what else do you know that us without 1000hp monsters never really need to :P

Mikael

06-13-2003, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Jimmy17
would love to hear more about this rich
i remember hearing you say in your quest for the 1000hp street tran you looked into the special t-56 used in viper gtsr... 800ft-lbs rated

what else do you know that us without 1000hp monsters never really need to :P

Nah, rich is a SELL OUT! Mr. Manual Trans or nothing is putting in an AUTO! :rolleyes:

j/k ;)

there's a guy making stronger input/output shafts, and other guys who are trying to adapt viper internals- long story short, its much cheaper, easier, and reliable (for now) to go to a th 400 or the like. I'm pretty sure this is what rich is doing, although i haven't heard an update for a while.

Nitromethane

06-13-2003, 01:23 AM

Ive been looking at these heads for a while, one day I'll be getting em, but first I need to get the chassis completed :) Id like to see some independant dyno numbers and ET's tho.

The Big Show

06-13-2003, 11:26 AM

Had some higher priorities move into place so things kinda have been on the backburner. House is almost finished up so I'll re-direct focus here prolly next month. I do have all the parts in place to complete now though so there's no more waiting on anything except my wallet :D

I think I'm going to go ahead and carb the motor first so I can get some dyno numbers and I'll convert to fuel injection later. Either way I doubt the motor will be going into a 4th gen. Emmissions have gotten strict around here and I want to show you guys the all out potential of these heads. I could easily scale the cam back and smog it and still make way too much power but I just don't want to do that at this stage. Spent too much on the carb and other things. Putting the motor into something that doesn't limit me will be a whole lot more fun too...

kmook

06-13-2003, 11:33 AM

Bobby, you lost me. Why is putting it in a 4th gen limiting you?

The Big Show

06-13-2003, 11:42 AM

Putting the motor in a 4th gen would mean I would have to abide by the emissions requirements of a 4th gen as well as the fact I couldn't carb the motor. Find that 'special inspector' gets old real quick and its something I really don't want to have to do. I don't like putting other people at risk like that anyway...

So what I'm saying is that because of the fact I already have a bunch of pieces (cam, carb, etc...) already, I want to go ahead and use them and using them technically wouldn't allow me to put the motor in a 4th gen...thereby the limiting factor. Clear as mud? :D

kmook

06-13-2003, 11:45 AM

or you can just move to FL where there are no emmisions :)

Well im glad its on its way. I think i am going to go the sb2.2 route or such when i get back into things. Though id always prefer still having your setup :cry:

joeSS97

06-15-2003, 11:03 AM

So what will the beast be going in?A first gen?Custom street rod?

The Big Show

06-16-2003, 11:25 AM

Anyone who knows me knows how my mind is. Once again I may have changed my mind :D

Blame it on ZTurbo! :p

kmook

06-16-2003, 02:45 PM

Yeh Steven has that effect on people :think:

zturbo

06-16-2003, 03:44 PM

Honest... It wasn't me. Blame it on Barney.

Steven

kmook

06-18-2003, 03:21 PM

Here is a question-

Since a single pushrod activates two rockers/two solid roller springs is there (or should there be) a concern on pushrod stress?

JordonMusser

06-18-2003, 03:53 PM

no. Push rods operate in compression, and therefor are very strong. use some good quality chromoly units.. and no worries :)

*edit*

DOH! I know what I meant :)

Nitromethane

06-18-2003, 03:56 PM

so how come arao heads arent as bolt-on as they say they are? what exactly is the problem with them?

kmook

06-18-2003, 04:29 PM

Thanks Jordon!

And Nitromethane this is a difrent thread that answers your question-
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38807

OldSStroker

06-19-2003, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by kmook
Here is a question-

Since a single pushrod activates two rockers/two solid roller springs is there (or should there be) a concern on pushrod stress?

If the pushrods are opening 2 valves they definitely need to be stronger. 3/8 with .080 wall should be at least 50% stiffer/stronger than 5/16 with .065 wall.

Originally posted by JordonMusser
no. Push rods operate in tension, and therefor are very strong. use some good quality chromoly units.. and no worries :)

oops! You meant "compression" right? Otherwise we'd be calling them pullrods.

My $.02

kmook

06-20-2003, 02:05 PM

:cool: Well ive always wanted to try to "Split" and thread (an option for us mods) and never had an operotunity to do so. So i think ill use it on this thread and split out the sb2.2 stuff into a new thread...

of i go Weeeeeeee :)

OldSStroker

06-20-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by kmook
:cool: Well ive always wanted to try to "Split" and thread (an option for us mods) and never had an operotunity to do so. So i think ill use it on this thread and split out the sb2.2 stuff into a new thread...

of i go Weeeeeeee :)

Often thought you might have a split personality... :)

Good idea.

mrr23

06-26-2003, 11:38 PM

straight off their site. you can use any intake you want. and hooker makes the 7 bolt flange for the headers. granted yes having 2" primaries would be nice. no special pistons needed up to 10.5:1. if i haver $6000 to buy them i would. but hey i'm broke just like the rest of you guys.

Use standard intake manifolds, cams, pistons to 10.5:1, and Hooker or Stahl 7 bolt pattern exhaust (Chevy) or Motor ‘n’ Sports (Ford) header flanges. Accessory holes in ends of heads.
Kits include Pr. of valve covers, Pr. of heads completely assembled, Pr. of head gaskets, notched for pushrod clearance (Chevy only), Set of 16 pushrods (Ford and Chevy), Set of head bolts (Chevy only).

The Big Show

06-27-2003, 01:33 PM

What they fail to highlight on their website from the text you quoted is that since the heads come in different sizes, one intake isn't necessarily going to work for all three series of heads. I've got the BIII series and although he says a 1209 gasket will work along with the corresponding intake, it would be a major restriction; and the gasket still needs to be opened up as well. When you get a chance, take some measuring equipment of your choice and measure the ports on an LT1/4 manifold.... Now stretch out your measurement to measure 2.5" tall x 1.5" wide. Thats the size of my ports.....

89ProchargedROC

06-27-2003, 02:16 PM

that's pretty big, my T1 heads are like 2.19 or 2.2X i think by 1.5

kmook

06-27-2003, 07:12 PM

I think i'm in love-
Last heads on this Page (http://www.araoengineering.com/pakages.htm)

:)

brain

06-27-2003, 08:36 PM

Don't worry Ken, they aren't real! LOL. Seriously, Bobby, do you REALLY have a set of those heads? I wonder if Russ Arao really even made a single set sometimes. I've seen the pics of UnstableBob, and I think its all a photochop! :D My friend and I have tried to get a set of the B3s for a SBF for 2 and a half years! Everytime we call, the reply is, "We aren't taking orders right now, as we are ramping up some new machinery, and it will be about 6 months." LOL 6 months, every time we call. I think BIG Show and UB are the only 2 people that have a set of them at ALL. Bobby, didn't yours run, or aren't they running right now on a carbed app? If so, did they include the spark plug wires? If not, what kind of wire did you use, as they are deep in the valve cover, right? I've talked to ONE person that had a set of them for a SBF and he sold them after waiting a year and half for Russ to get him the wires, which he never did. Oh well, I can dream. One day, I'll win the lottery and MAKE Russ make me a set!

Injuneer

06-28-2003, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by brain
...... I've seen the pics of UnstableBob, and I think its all a photochop! :D ......
100% unaltered photos, except for cropping and brightness/contrast adjustment.....

Guaranteed!

Have you seen the one of UB his-self holding one of the valve covers......

kmook

06-28-2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Injuneer
Have you seen the one of UB his-self holding one of the valve covers......
I bet its just UB holding an overly large can of starkist, and the cover was shoped in.

;)

Mindgame

06-28-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by kmook
I think i'm in love-
Last heads on this Page (http://www.araoengineering.com/pakages.htm)

:)

Hey that's cool, 440 cfm intake, 335 cfm exhaust. Not lacking in flow are they.:)

I personally would save myself alot of headache and do a sb2.2, pro action 12 or 14* conversion. At least there are cast intakes for those heads and they can flow well over 420 cfm with 300+ cc ports.
I don't doubt that some racer has put an Arao engine together.... I'll be damned if I've heard of one winning all the gold though. Who knows.

-Mindgame

The Big Show

06-29-2003, 12:58 PM

unstable bob

06-29-2003, 05:36 PM

I heard that Russ Arao and Elvis were seen at a Taco Bell, sitting in a Caddy that was powered by a Dominion headed LT1...

89ProchargedROC

06-29-2003, 08:05 PM

Hey big show....

The southern shootout is a 2 day event (saturday/sunday)

You could bring the car and just test-n-tune and/or do some grudge racing on saturday

still should be a good time :)

The Big Show

06-30-2003, 12:23 AM

UB, you didn't happen to catch the location of that Taco Bell did you? I could use my tracking resources and see whats the dang deal...

89Pro...I will probably definitely go to the event but I don't know if I would be willing to drive the car that far if I didn't plan on racing. I can grudge match and the likes right here at one of the fastest tracks in the country so I'd like to have a bit more incentive. And for those that may have misunderstood that last statement, it has nothing to do with payout.

89ProchargedROC

06-30-2003, 12:41 AM

Well.......what if i call you a pu$$y and say you'll never finish that junk and my garage built turbo motor will hand it its ass on 93 octane?

that enough incentive? :p

The Big Show

06-30-2003, 12:43 AM

*busting out laughing for real*

Now your speaking my language....:death:

kmook

06-30-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by The Big Show
Russ Arao has been a complete waste of time to work with or even depend on. He has been promising me an intake now for over a year and you see I've given up on him. He won't answer the phone and won't return messages.

LOL speak of the devil, guess who actually called me on my cell today.... :eek:

brain

06-30-2003, 07:30 PM

That is odd, as he answers the phone every time I call, but never has anything to sell! He's called me back a few times as well, since he has a set of Yates style B3s he's been trying to get rid of for ever. I'm thinking about telling my friend to get them, as we talked him down to $4,700, and the yates style usually run 6500 or so. I mean, a set of used Yates heads run about $3500 with jesels, but you get no gaskets or valve covers. The araos come with all of that (supposedly), so it might end up being worth it. Also, he wouldn't have to have the heads welded up, with the intake ports on the arao's being a little smaller than the yates 2 valves, but with 4 valves, I would presume it wouldn't be bad as the same size runner on a 2 valve head. What to do, what to do!

SStrokerAce

06-30-2003, 11:31 PM

These things are vapor ware. One day they might run, and one day they might be fast, but they seem pretty useless to even own if you can't run them.

It's pretty impressive to hear someone like Greg Goode was impressed with the flow, that's saying something. No doubt they have potential, but they don't ever show it where it counts on a dyno.

Bret

wetwolf

09-06-2007, 12:57 PM

Hi guys, I was doing a google search on Arao and came across this thread. I work for a company that builds 4valve cylinder heads and engines for Harley Davidson Evos. We use swivel feet for valve actuation. I have been dealing with Russ at Arao and have gotten some swivel feet from him. But........... It takes him sooooooooo loooooong to get stuff in the mail to us. I have a production line that needs to keep running and cannot depend on him for a steady supply. Sorry to go off topic on this thread (even tho it's years old)

Anyhoo. Does anyone know what machine shop is building the swivel feet for him. Every time I ask him, I get a different answer and the promise that he will process our orders faster. Then I wait for 4 weeks for them to show up.

Any help would be appreciated.

SStrokerAce

09-06-2007, 01:11 PM

What you need is a better rocker design..... send a PM or e-mail to OldSStroker he can lead you down the right path.

Bret

jerminator96

09-06-2007, 01:40 PM

What company do you work for?

wetwolf

09-06-2007, 04:15 PM

Revolution Performance Motors -- rpmhemi.com

unstable bob

09-07-2007, 01:00 AM

What you need is a better rocker design..... send a PM or e-mail to OldSStroker he can lead you down the right path.

Bret

Yeah, da Bauers have dare fingers on da pulse of da rite solution to replace the swivel of da feet!

PS: Hey Bret, I NEED ONE THOUSAND HORSE POWER! There is a Veyron in da neighborhood I need to SMOKE!!!:D

4094-valve

09-19-2007, 03:13 PM

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/hppp_0702_1995_pontiac_trans_am/index.html

jerminator96

09-19-2007, 03:30 PM

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/hppp_0702_1995_pontiac_trans_am/index.html

That's pretty awsome. Not quite the flow numbers I expected from those heads, but I guess the advantage is more in the low-mid range lift flow.

unstable bob

09-20-2007, 06:39 PM

That should be MY engine, dammit! :mad:

jerminator96

09-20-2007, 10:33 PM

That should be MY engine, dammit! :mad:

You got a $100k in your car yet UBG?;)

unstable bob

09-21-2007, 03:04 AM

You got a $100k in your car yet UBG?;)

Broh, if I added it up...BUT I WON'T...it wouldn't surprise me if I did! :eek:

jerminator96

09-21-2007, 02:46 PM

Broh, if I added it up...BUT I WON'T...it wouldn't surprise me if I did! :eek:

Well, I guess this is one of those times when ignorance really is bliss.;)

unstable bob

09-21-2007, 06:14 PM

Well, I guess this is one of those times when ignorance really is bliss.;)

Yeah, buddy. And I try to be as ig'nint as possible! lol

OldSStroker

09-22-2007, 12:14 AM

Yeah, buddy. And I try to be as ig'nint as possible! lol
Ah shucks, UB, you remind me of Caroll Shelby...another good ol' boy.

BTW, getting closer with the valvetrain project. Save up your money. :)

unstable bob

09-22-2007, 11:02 AM

Ah shucks, UB, you remind me of Caroll Shelby...another good ol' boy.

BTW, getting closer with the valvetrain project. Save up your money. :)

Dayum, Pops Racer, I'm not worthy to be mentioned in the same lifetime of breaths as Ol' Shel! :eek:
N' I got a buck six three ninety in Arcemedian pennies I can send ya RIGHT NOW! :D

BILLETRACING

01-16-2008, 09:43 PM

:D

I have a picture of one of my heads on the opening page of my site. I took the heads to Greg Goode and watched him flow them myself on his correctly calibrated flowbench. I also proceeded to watch his jaw hit the floor which I have never seen happen :shock:

I haven't had a chance to run the heads. I was building a race only application and as usual decided to change my mind and go a different direction. I mean, what fun is it to have something that you can only enjoy a quarter mile at a time? In the process I also jumped into a major purchase that kinda put all things on the backburner so thats been the major hold up.

To date we have all the pieces including the offset lifters for the longblock. ZTurbo is taking care of the intake side of things and we're hoping to have things together for the Thunder Southern Shootout, although I may not bring the car cause the only class it looks like I can run is pro outlaw which would be a complete waste of time and cash. So I'll probably just go to watch. Depending on where the car is at, the lil' parts getter (my S10) may get the nod for the trip to Louisana.

Russ Arao has been a complete waste of time to work with or even depend on. He has been promising me an intake now for over a year and you see I've given up on him. He won't answer the phone and won't return messages. Rest asure this motor will make some serious waves and I can guarantee you now I will make sure he doesn't get too many accolades because of the lack of customer service he has provided. As we all know, customer service is everthing in this buisness.

I know everyone is patiently waiting to see if the hype is worth it and hopefully soon we will see. I'm just as anxious as everyone but I'm also a budget racer for life so things have to happen in time. ;)
Hi Guys I cannot bite my tongue no longer..............On Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:26 PM I Kevin Gall made contact via email with a company located in California U.S.A. As you know the company is ARAO Engineering Inc. the owner is Russell ARAO . In my contact email to ARAO i enquired about a special order set of FORD Aluminum racing cylinder heads - a product ARAO advertises & manufactures. After receiving a reply and several emails i decided to place an order with ARAO The product is special order Automotive cylinder heads to suit a Ford V8 for racing use at a fax quoted cost of USD $11,000.00 manufacturing leadtime ARAO states on paper 90days for special orders.

On 31st January 2006 payment via Int'l Bank Wire of USD $5,500.00 & 6th February 2006 USD $5,500.00 was completed in FULL to ARAO Engineering Inc. Bank account. After several more emails to finalize details and special requests i was informed by ARAO were engaged and going. After some waiting i emailed ARAO on Friday, June 02, 2006 12:39 AM to ask if everything was on track, i received a response back from ARAO that everything was fine and on track.

Again after more waiting On Friday, September 15, 2006 03:05:42 i asked via email a good friend of mine that owns a reputable drag racing supplies shop located in Whittier, CA U.S.A. to contact ARAO by telephone. He spoke with Russell ARAO and he stated to he was waiting on parts from an outside supplier - hence the delay. In months to come i have made ALOT of repeated attempts in writing, faxes, calls, emails to receive a date for finalizing and completion of my special order. I still have not received a date at which my order will be finished.

As of today Sunday, Jan 17th, 2008 nearly two(2) years later i have not received my order from ARAO Engineering Inc, only BU**SHT PROMISES AND ABSOLUTE LIES. The only thing i have received is pictures of my heads un-finished. I believe i have been patient and understanding and more than reasonable considering that ARAO has not delivered as promised 90days to manufacture.

From my personal dealings I heavily caution anybody wishing to part with their money to purchase from a disreputable company like ARAO Engineering Inc. If you have any questions/comments please email anytime! ....Arao Engineering has been reported by myself to the L.A Better Business Bureau & also C.A dept of Justice ,The office of the Attorney General C.A. It is noted Russ Arao Failed to respond to any complaint(s).

**NOTE: I/We am willing to persue this matter all the way into a U.S Court. ANY support is welcome! This person/company CANNOT steal your money and think that it is right or acceptable -no matter what.