'86 350

Allright, I'm not gonna need new tires for probably a month or so, but I'll be honest, the Jumho 711's I'm running now are absolutely HORRIBLE. They can't hook for sh*t and they don't handle too well either.

I do some auto-x events and I'd like to be able to hook on the street too. I thought about some Nitto 555r's, but the soft sidewall just isn't going to work for auto--x so those are out.

I'm looking for tires and I'm sort of on a budget. For now the 711's will stay up front as they still have about 70% tread life on them. I'm running 245/45/17 front and 255/45/17 rear currently. I plan on stepping up to about 275/40/17 rear or 275/45/17. Either one is fine with me.

I'm REALLY liking the Sumitumo HTR Z II's right now. They're very cheap, look good and according to most reviews, they seem to get pretty damn good traction, and good handling too.

Here are some choices I picked out, remember I'm on a budget, so some of the tires may be relatively cheap here. Here are some I had in mind:

1. Sumitumo HTR Z II
2. Sumitumo HTR Z (anyone know the difference between this and the HTR Z II?)
3. Fuzion ZRi
4. Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 (step up from current 711's)
5. Kumho Ecsta SPT (step up from 712)
6. Hankook K104's.
7. Possibly the Yokohama AVS 100 (they're a little expensive though).
8. ???

Anyways, out of those tires please let me know your opinions on which one would be best. If one would be better for striaght line and one better for handling, let me know so I can weigh and compare the two. Also if you have any other suggestions that are around the same price (no more then ~ $110 a tire) then please let me know.

-Thanks, Brandon

Zack

alll listed are pretty much low level stuff

the have the yokohamas...crap

get the 555r's they are actually REALLY good in turns and cornering

as far as size, youre pretty narrow. what width are the wheels. if you have at least a 9, switch to the 275/40/17..

wrd1972

I got Cooper 2XS Zeon 275/40/17. They grip like a big dog and only cost $125.00.
I will never put any other tire on ever, way better than my old Pirelli, Dunlops and BF's.

87DJP2001

HTR-Z is a All Season tire...
HTR-Z II is a Performance tire which Goodyear copied for GSD...

HTR-Z II would be a good choice, I have had them for 5 yrs now in 245/45/17, Good traction wet/dry and good tread life and I paid over $130 per tire back in 2001.
Also Sumitomo is a major owner of Goodyear.

Greed4Speed

The GSD3 is far from a "copy" of the HTRZII. The HTRZII are equivalent to the Kumho 712 and Yoko ES100. The GSD3 is in the league of high end Bridgestones and Michelins. They are only alike in that they are both directional. The GSD3 tread resembles the Yoko AVS sport more than the HTRZ II.

Sumitomo also DOES NOT OWN much of anything Goodyear. I don't know where you people come up with this crap.

Its amazing what a little internet search will unveil.

Neither is owned by the other.
Goodyear acquired 10% of Sumitomo's stock, worth about $88 million. Sumitomo acquired the same dollar value of Goodyear's stock, or about 1% of Goodyear's shares. (WOW!!! A whopping 1% majority!!!!!)

At the center of the Sumitomo-Goodyear agreement are six joint ventures.

The largest venture will combine 14 factories operated by Goodyear and Sumitomo in Western Europe. Goodyear will have 75% control of the venture (This is far from the Sumitomo owning a majority of Goodyear comment), which will have a combined $4 billion in annual revenue. The venture will sell Goodyear brand tires as well as Sumitomo's Dunlop and Sumitomo brands.

A second venture will give Goodyear 75% control over Sumitomo's two U.S. factories in Huntsville, Ala. and Buffalo, N.Y. The facilities have about $800 million in sales. (Again, what was that about Sumitomo being a major owner???)
Goodyear and Sumitomo will combine their global purchasing and research and development operations into two joint ventures that will be majority owned by Goodyear (Thats right the MAORITY WILL BE OWNED BY GOOD YEAR!!!). In the research venture, Goodyear and Sumitomo will seek to eliminate duplicate product development efforts. Both companies, for instance, have tires that can run after they get flat. Eventually, the companies will likely sell the same run-flat technology.

There will be two joint ventures in the Japanese market, both controlled by Sumitomo. These will take over Goodyear's small Japanese marketing operations and will target auto makers and the replacement market.
(So, ONLY in the Japanese market will Sumitomo have any majority. Ya, they really own Goodyear.)

87DJP2001

Greed4speed
I wonder if you got sucked in by Goodyears hype to buy (if you do own a set??) the GSD3 tires??
Myself and per TIRERACKS comparison they rate the Sumitom HTR Z-II better then the GSD3 look it up. Also for these tires, I would buy and have the HTR Z-II at $92**
(I paid $130 per tire 5yrs ago from Tirerack)
vs The GSD3 @ $192 for 245/45/17 tire. And will you be able to say "I have these hyped GSD3 tires on your car X?X number of years now". Well I can say it, a good choice and will buy them afain.

eagleknight97

Well, according to the people that actually buy the tires, the Sumitomo are ranked 15th in their category and dont get as high of scored on everything compared to the GS-D3's. I think someone is just trying to defend their purchase of tires. The Goodyears are better, but im sure the Sumo's are good as well.

Greed4Speed

I did look it up on tirerack. They test the Sumi with the cheesy Kumho 712 and ES100. The GSD3 is tested with the higher end tires that are known to perform great.
Just to humor you and make you look more the fool I just did a comparison on tire rack between these 2 tires.
Tire Size(s) Being Compared:
275/40-17 (Front & Rear)


(Pricing shown is per tire.)

Performance Category
Speed Rating
Treadlife Warranty
Warranty Rating*
CUSTOMER SURVEY DATA**
Would Buy Again?
Hydroplaning Resistance
Wet Traction
Cornering Stability
Dry Traction
Steering Response
Light Snow Traction
Deep Snow Traction
Ice Traction
Ride Comfort
Noise Comfort
Treadwear
TIRE SPECS
UTQG Data
Max Load
Max Inflation Pressure
Tread Depth
Tire Weight
Rim Width Range
Meas. Rim Width
Section Width
Tread Width
Overall Diameter
Revs Per Mile
MORE INFO
The latest customer reviews, survey data, and test results. Also, learn more about a tire's warranty.

(Available information varies by tire)
PURCHASE
Pricing shown is per tire.
Remove
Goodyear
Eagle F1 GS-D3
Blackwall

Front & Rear

$206.00



Max Performance Summer
YRNone

Probably - 8.6
8.9
9.1
8.8
9.2
8.8
N/A
N/A
N/A
8.5
8.4
7.9

280 AA A1653 lbs.51 psi10/32"27 lbs.9-11"9.5"10.8"9.4"25.7"811
Warranty Info
Reviews
Test Results
Survey Results


Goodyear
Eagle F1 GS-D3
Front & Rear

$206.00


In Stock
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Road Hazard: $98.88 (set of 4)

Remove
Sumitomo
HTR Z II
Blackwall

Front & Rear

$99.00



Ultra High Performance Summer
WRNone

Probably - 7.4
7.8
7.7
8.3
8.6
8.3
N/A
N/A
N/A
7.7
7.5
7.5

220 AA A1433 lbs.51 psi11/32"30 lbs.9-11"9.5"11.1"9.9"25.7"807

The lower numbers are NOT better.... Maybe you REALLY should research prior to posting. Then I won't have to disprove you so much.


We can see the validity of your data with the "Sumi own most of Goodyear anyway" comment....

I agree, its a classic case of purchase defending. You got cheap tires and want to think they're as good as world class tires. Seriously, this is like saying a Honda has more bang for the buck performance wise compared to a C6.

SFB767

See my sig. They're my 3rd set and they're the only tire I'll put on my car. They're THAT good.

'86 350

Hmm.... this seems to have turned into quite a debate. I'll be honest, I don't give a **** who owns who, I just want something that performs. I could care less if they're made by some high class Italian tire manufacturer, or by some kid strapped to a conveyer belt in China, if they work the same, I'll take the cheaper one.

From all this I've really only been able to decipher that Sumitumo does not indeed own Goodyear.

It seems people have a decent experiance with the Sumitumos and so far, but anyone with any of the other tires. That'd be great if the Sumitumos were the best performers, espesically since they're one of the cheapest. I don't wanna end up buying a tire though, that looks good and is priced good, but the second I go to launch and I drop the clutch, there's just a ****load of smoke and no traction. If I launch my 711's with the least bit of agressiveness they'll simply break loose and never gain traciotn again.... I can't stand it.


Thanks, but I'm kinda looking for more of a summer tire, the car doesn't really need all season's. Plus they're a little more then I was looking to spend.

eagleknight97

Those are good tires, but there are much better tires for just summer applications.

Greed4Speed

Thats the problem, you've limited yourself to mediocre tires and as such you will acheive mediocre performance.

Go ahead and mark the 712's off you list. They suck horribly and will do just what your 711's do. This from experience with them. The Hankooks tend to have soft sidewalls. On the wife's car we went from KDWS to some Hankooks with the same speed rating and treadwear rating, and the difference was night and day. The car is now a pig in the corners because the sidewalls are so soft.

You're going to need to increase what you want to spend if you want to obtain great performance. Just like you wont't get Zo6 performance when you buy a Civic.

Since you mention auto-x and the Nitto 555R (which would be out of your price range anyway) check out the 555RII. This is a track tire. It'll have less tread life. It's also a bit unfair to even talk about track tires in conjunction with street tires. Many auto-xres around here are running the Kumho MX. If you are serious about auto-X then you'll know that tires and brakes make a world of difference.

I wish there was a tire that cost $100 that hooked great, but there isn't. Just look at the comparison I posted. The GSD3 is all high 8's and 9's compared to the inexpensive HTRZ2 that is all 7's and 8's. You tend to get what you pay for.

For somewhat inexpensive tires (both of which are most likely above the limit you set) that are gaining good reps look at the Firestone wide oval, and the BFG G-force sport. They're not going to be any better than the regular Nitto 555 though. At least they're not price gouging like Nitto is... I'd put the Toyo T1R and BFG KDW in that group also. These are all good street tires, but they're no track tire.

All those suspension mods you have are worthless if you're tires can't keep up.

'86 350

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing I'll stay away from the 712's like you mentioned. The 711's do suck, I didn't expect the 712's to do much better.

I understand that in auto-x that your limited by brakes and tires. I recently did a rear-end swap to get some lower gears (3.73's) and rear PBR disc brakes. These have helped 10 fold, but like you said, I'm sure I'll notice an even bigger difference if I were to switch tires. Most people run the Kumho MX around there? They're actually not too bad price wise at only $130 a tire for 275/40/17 and about $140 a piece for 285/40/17. For auto-x what size would you say would be better on a 17x9 rim? I don't want something that's too wide with a bunch of sidewall rollover, would 275mm be the better option or would 285mm help anough in striaght line accel that it'll be worth going too?

The 555RII is a nice tire, I've heard of it before, but like I mentioned, it's a tad expensive, and it's strictly a track tire. I don't want that, considering I only make it out to the auto-x course probably 2 times a month.

Are the Firestone wide ovals going to be any better then the Kumho MX tires? They're about $25 more a tire, so is that priice really justifiable or do they both peroform fairly equally? You think the G-force sport would measure up to the Kumoh MX too? I see it's about the same price, but if they're both equal, I think I'd rather go with the MX honestly.

eagleknight97

The Kumho's and Firestones are probably pretty equal, with the Firestones having a much higher treadwear rating, for what thats worth. The G-Force sports seem to be a grade below both of those other tires.

Coolformula

Look at G-force Sport,Firestone wide oval, and KUMHO MX. The MX got a lot of good reviews for weekend autocross people I have a pair they have over 22k and only rotated once...and still have4-5/32ths left....and double A on traction....around 129 each tire