CANTONRACER

If I had to do it again...LS1...better engine no doubt....weigh less...better brakes...

And as for LS1 having "crazy" top end...no they don't...they have top end that corresponds to their rwhp.

A LS1 making 300 rwhp will not pull any harder than an LT1, 5.0, or whatever making 300 rwhp if weight, aero, gearing, drivetrain loss are the same. They simply make more rwhp, hence the harder top end pull.

But, you can pick up some killer deals on built LT1's for less than LS1...

darrens99formul

Sorry but I disagree bud. LS1's do have more top end pull then a LT1 even if RWHP is the same. The difference was explained to me to be in the peak torque curves you see on a dyno graph. LS1's peak at higher RPM's then do LT1's. This explains why many people who have owned both say the LT1 seems a little faster in city driving condidtions but would get blown away by LS1's at highway punches.

It was explained to me (by some very respectable car gurus) that stock vs stock the LS1 will blow away the LT1 in every aspect mainly because of the difference in RWHP as you explained in your post. But even if you give the LT1 the same RWHP/weight you would still have the LS1 winning at the top end. If they lined up from a dig I would picture the LT1 jumping out in front and having a lead in the 1/8 mile mark but the LS1 should catch and pass before the 1/4 mile mark and slowly pull all the way to speed governor if the race went that long.

But that is not to insult LT1 motors. They have insane low end torque that LS1's lack without some help (ie high stall TC on a automatic) and they have proven to be a long lasting/durable motor capable of 200,000 plus miles. LS1's are not quite old enough yet to test thier longevity so we shall see on how they hold up beyond 150,000 on the clock.

CANTONRACER

Just because they make power higher does not mean they will be faster. There is more to it than that.

Let's say you take an LT1 for example and it makes peak rwhp @ 6000. You take an LS1 and it makes peak @ 6500 rpm. Both make the same rwhp. Would you gear the LT1 the same as the LS1 or vice versa? Not at all. Same for tq's or launch rpm's.

An example is an the Oldsmobiles out there running 9's & 10's making a lot of rwhp, but @ 5000 rpm.

I am not bashing LS1's in anyway. In fact. LS1's are the reason I just bought a set of AFR 220 LT4 heads and going big solid roller.

darrens99formul

Ok but I still disagree with you. LS1's make better power up top from everything I have seen.

Good Luck with your car

darrens99formul

You got me thinking so I asked the question over at ls1tech.com and it looks like I was right but not for the reason I thought.

Apparently the big difference in top end power between the two motors is due to the better flowing heads in the LS1. So even if the LT1 matches a LS1 with HP by a few bolt-ons like FIPK and maybe LT headers it would still get pulled up high by an LS1 IF the heads on the LT1 are still untouched and stock.

So the LT1 can pull as strong up high but only IF you do some heads/cam upgrading. But 100% stock internals favors the LS1.

Hope that clears this up a little.

CANTONRACER

There is more to it than heads and flow numbers.

Take your average LT1 making 320-330 rwhp...traps 110-112. Take your average LS1 making 320-330 rwhp...traps 110-112.

I have seen 100's of cars dyno. Been racing cars for over 13 years. I know how #'s work, how gearing works, little things like that.

99blackSS

CANTONRACER: Are you saying for a engine swap it would be cheaper to put in a LT1 and mod it to be as fast as a LS1?

CANTONRACER

It all depends on what you want to do. I would imagine that an engine swap either LT1 or LS1 would still require that the drivetrain and the electronics will be needed. I am sure that there are more LT1 donor cars out there than LS1, and for less.

But, word is the LT1 M6's are stronger and I know for a fact that LS1 rearends are better. Couldn't tell you about the auto's, but the LS1's tq's are not interchangable with LT1's.

If you had the choice and you did not care about the extra cost of the LS1, get the LS1. But if a deal comes along for an LT1, don't be in the mindset they suck. Many 400rwhp head/cam combos floating around and they don't cost that much.

And I don't know many LT1's that want to be as fast as LS1's...they want to be faster. Heck, I am looking to run hopefully mid 10's..that should hold of most.

darrens99formul

Sorry but it's just not gonna fly bro. Your trying to make it more complicated then it really is to make the LT1 look more appealing. There is nothing wrong with the LT1 motor and once you do a head/cam upgrade (which most serious modders do) then all bets are off.

Check out the thread entitled "question for you engine guru's" at:

www.ls1tech.com

It's under the new enthusiasts section. The guys over there really know there stuff and since no one else has chimed in over here I wanted more imput.

You don't believe me but that does not make me or the guys over there wrong.

Good Luck

CANTONRACER

Dude, what the hell are you talking about. I am keeping very simple just for you, nothing at all complicated with what has been said so far.

Just because you do not understand and you think it is complicated does not make it complicated.

Have you read a single thing I posted here. Point out where I say the LT1 is the better motor? Come on.

I know most differences between an LT1 and an LS1. Like do you really think the the head flow is the only major benefit. Hmmm...what about the cam..the rockers...the stroked crank..the longer rods....improved ignition...where shall I stop.

You know, you know **** about cars and believe what you want. I have only built many of them...raced them for years...you know, whatever.

darrens99formul

Obviously you don't know quite as much as you thought you did.

Go check out the other thread and argue with them.

Peace

CANTONRACER

Actually, if you read the thread you will see that I am right and people agree.

And you forgot to mention the part about gearing, stall and launch rpm...that sorta plays a massive role in getting the most out of a car.

And that article...old.

darrens99formul

So far people are not exactly agreeing. The argument now is if you have identical gears, trannny, RWHP and weight the LS1 still wins up top. I'm not talking about a 1/4 run but a 0-150 run. I suggest we finish this debate over on the other thread since there are a few more participants willing to add to it over there.

If you prove me wrong then I'll admit it but so far you havn't done it. Lets continue this in the other forum.

BTW did you read my couple of posts over there? I clearly said this was what I have read and been told. If you can prove me and the ones telling me the heads are the difference over there wrong then great. It's not a bad thing to learn something new or be corrected on misinformation. But remember that if you don't prove me wrong.

Last thing is try and refrain in the future from personal attacks. It's not very becoming and I will not resort to it. Lets keep it civil but lets move it over to ls1tech please.

CANTONRACER

Dude, there was never an arguement. Now your making up scenarios to validate your unknown point.

Do you think that the fastest cars are the cars with the highest rwhp@ rpm. Hell, if that was the case, these little import cars making X rwhp @ a much higher rpm in cars that weigh much less would just kick the crap out of everything...I mean...X rwhp @ X rpm...they don't though.

Man.

darrens99formul

No sir, this is not an argument. This is a debate. There is a big difference.

I have read countless threads of all types. I read tons of drag racing forums, street racing forums (ls1 related), internal and external LS1 engine forums, ect. But I admit I know very little about the LT1 because I never owned one.

However, I added my input to the original poster here because in my hours and hours of threads I have read there has been lots of comparisons of LT1 to LS1 as I'm sure you can imagine. There have been a lot of "street racing posts" where LT1 owners with just minor bolt-ons have talked about how they raced a stock or almost stock LS1 and jumped out in front out of the hole only to get passed around 70-90 mph because the LT1 starts losing steam and the LS1 is just finding it's power.

Granted there is more then one reason for that but the fact remains the only kill stories I ever read about LT1's beating LS1's at high speed highway races are when the LT1's are heavily modified and usually with heads and cam or the LS1 showed obvious driver error or mechanical malfunction. Even the LT1 owners tend to praise the LS1 for it's top end power. I tried to get you to get into a civil debate over at ls1tech.com because there were people there willing to add to the discussion. Here it's just me and you and I am not qualified to debate it further then I have all ready but they are.

We are in V6 tech section here so I understand why outside input is at a minimal since we are discussing V8 engines. No need to get defensive. I'm not attacking you and I hope your not attacking me. But if you can convince them then you will definately convince me.

And no it's not like asking a ford guy about chevy's. A lot of those guys used to or still have a LT1 so that is not the same at all.

Good Luck with your car. It sounds like a sweet setup from what I read in your sig. Unfortunately my bank account has my modding on hold till after the holidays. I hope to get a TCI SSF3500 w/shift kit , tranny cooler and nitto 555r's as my next set of mods.