Need your help.

My 2000 Firebird turns on the flashing SES light when I drive the car at full throttle or when the car is driving up the hill. I'll try to get the code read but wanted to ask you guys if you have any idea.

The lights only flashes when the engine is under the load as described above. Coasting on a Freeway or driving normally on city streets does not trigger it.

Also, when the light comes on, I do feel a slight power loss and hear some clunking sound coming from the rear (??????)

Any help is appreciated.

 

Misfire...

Can't tell you what though.

------------------
-Nathan
1996 Camaro
3.8L Series II, SLP CAI, Catco cat, Taylor 8mm wires, LSD, 3.42 gears, Borla catback.
1995 Dodge Stealth R/T
Twin Turbo Intercooled 3.0L AWD M6,A'PEXi AVC-R boost control, HKS Blow-off valve, K&N FIPK, Denso Iridium plugs, 245/40/18 Kumho Supra, Borla Catback, Mobil 1 fluids.
*VVvvTTttFFff* TNC since 1981!

 

That would be my suspicion.

Went to Auto Zone to check the code. Unfortunately, it was not recorded (doh).
The car again had large clunking sound when I go full throttle. I decided to stop doing this as it may damage the engine further.

I'll have to take it to a shop for diagnostics.

If anyone has other ideas, please post.

 

I had this exact problem. I took it in under warranty for a whole new ignition and it still didn't fix the problem. So i asked about a new PCM, and they ordered me one and put it in. Never had a problem since.
The PCM was picking up false misfiring. Your description matches exactly what mine was. Hope this helps...

Scott

------------------
2000 Silver stalled A4 Bird
soon to be slammed and cammed

 

Thanks for all your input guys.

Here's what the shops diagnosed.

1. There was a misfire in both cylinder #3 and #5.
2. They believe misfire was caused by bad plug wires (you were right KillerJello).
3. The bad plug wires/misfires caused catalytic converter to melt.
4. Melted catalytic converter created a block in exhaust flow, hence loss of power and more misfires during heavy engine load (full throttle, uphill road).


The $$$ damage???

$550 for Catalytic converter for parts and labor

$~50 for new plug wires
$~70 for new spark plugs
Additional labor for spark plugs/wires install ~????? (yet to get a quote)

So I'm looking at probably $800 down the tube.

I now have questions for you guys (I'll also ask the shop when I pick up the car). How could I have prevented from the Cat to melt?
What caused the plug wires to go bad so quick(car is only 2 years old with 63K miles)? I would like to prevent this money drain from happening again.

Thanks again.

 

$550 for a cat install? You can get a high flow cat for roughly $100 bucks give or take. $400 to put it in? I would call a shop or two in your area and see what they would charge. That sounds a lot like a dealer quote to me.

As far as the wires going bad, you do need to replace your wires periodically. They could have slipped off the brackets that hold them and gotten a little bit too close to something. Unlikely but possible.
Its not a big deal and $50 is about right although $70 is a little high for plugs. I got iridium ones off the net for $50 and he is probably giving you cheap ones.

As far as causing your cat to melt.....thats a odd one to me. I can't think of any reason why a misfire in the plugs would cause a cat to melt. If I am wrong guys shoot me done but this sounds a little bit odd and expensive.

And you can replace your plugs and wire using basic tools yourself.
------------------
If you own a V6 Camaro or Firebird you need to be here!

http://www.fbodyv6.com/index.php

[This message has been edited by blue95 (edited September 12, 2002).]

 

The shop I took is an independent shop that I trust. I know they try to use much of the OEM parts as possible so that may be the reason for the higher parts price. Also, I plan to sell the bird next year so I like to keep it stock as possible (hence no high flow cat). I would like to have second child soon and two car seats in Bird is just a cruel and unusual punishment.

I got the true cost of the whole service. Much, much more expensive then I anticipated:

Catalytic Converter $450
Labor for Cat $104
Diagnostic $95
Iridium Plugs $66
Wires $59
Fuel Filter $33
Labor for plugs,wires, filter $221
Fuel Induction $110

Total Hole in my wallet $1,138.

All of this because of either bad plugs or bad wires. The shop is going to take a look at the old wires and try to determine to see what happened so that I can prevent this next time (is 100K miles tune up schedule a joke?)

Not very fond of GM cars anymore..... Next car will definitely be Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura.

[This message has been edited by Taka (edited September 12, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Taka (edited September 12, 2002).]

 

Taka thats horrible,Sounds like you already did this.And thats the bill?
If not,
1 you can do most of that stuff(fuel filter,plugs/wires)and save alot $$
2 then your left w/ the Cat.,The Cat.(OE) they are gettin you I believe is attached to Y,One piece.I ran over the "rock"in the road,the OE "Y"got crushed to replace it(stock)it came w/ new Cat.attached,Same high price$500+,b/c of the Y,thats why.
Do what blue95&jello said about the cat&tune up stuff.
Doit yerself,order the cat(alot cheaper)muffler shop when recieved.Get a Haynes Manual,get your hands dirty ,Save big.
T.

------------------
_ _ ______________ _ _
Hella Clean Dark Green Metallic 98 3.8 L60E Coupe:Fast toys Ram Air,Holly filter,Whisper lid,Jet stage2 PCM,160 Thermo,Man.fan switch,Purple ice wetter,Eibach Pros,Koni adjustables,BMR sways,Prothane bushins,Transgo kit,Magnaflow cat-back.National Auto Sport ***. member/student.

 

I'm probably wrong, but I think I remember the misfire can melt the cat because the fuel that isn't getting burned 100% enters the cat and burns there.

How long were you running with the SES flashing?

------------------
-Nathan
1996 Camaro
3.8L Series II, SLP CAI, Catco cat, Taylor 8mm wires, LSD, 3.42 gears, Borla catback.
1995 Dodge Stealth R/T
Twin Turbo Intercooled 3.0L AWD M6,A'PEXi AVC-R boost control, HKS Blow-off valve, K&N FIPK, Denso Iridium plugs, 245/40/18 Kumho Supra, Borla Catback, Mobil 1 fluids.
*VVvvTTttFFff* TNC since 1981!

 

Thanks for all your sympathies and ideas.

Just to clarify again, it's not a dealer but an independent shop that is doing the job.

I could probably save at least few hundred dollars if I did it myself (I usually do on the most of the maintenance items), but in this case, I'll eat it since I want to make sure this issue gets resolved and warrantied for a year.

As some of you have mentioned, I would not be surprised if the CAT melted if we have been driving around with the engine light on.
However, that wasn't the case.

I checked the car because my wife mentioned that there were power loss and hesitation going up the hill. SES light never came on during this time. Only time SES light came on was when I provoked it once during full throttle/uphill when I checked. Once it flashed, I dropped by Autozone (less than a 1 mile), check the code with nothing showing. We then took the car into the shop the following day. Not sure why SES light never came on, why wire plug went bad, and why cat melted.

Very puzzled.

[This message has been edited by Taka (edited September 13, 2002).]

 

You're getting the shaft.
Catalytic Converter $450 You can get one for $50 from summit.

Labor for Cat $104

Diagnostic $95

Iridium Plugs $66 I pay $12 for my NGK coppers.

Wires $59 Taylor wires are both better then stock and cheaper.

Fuel Filter $33 I think that's like half from a parts store. $15 at most.

Labor for plugs,wires, filter $221 It takes 30sec for a monkey to replace the fuel filter. I did it in a parking lot without even jacking up the car under 1min. Plugs and wires might take an hour or two if you never done it before.

Fuel Induction $110 What the heck is that?

You are getting so ripped off.

 

Sorry to hear all this.
Um, if I am correct there is a recall on spark plug wires causing this on v6 f body's and the dealer (any dealer) will replace it all for free.

------------------
james 97 3.8 v6 firebird
juiced best et 12.669, best mph 107.54 mph
non juiced 14.518 at 92.76 mph
Old dyno: 291 rwhp and 362.5 rw torque
check me out at: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/misterjuice
1972" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire.com/nj3/misterjuice
1972</A> chevelle (3256 lbs) no times yet

 

What recall?

 

You are getting 100% ripped off. A new cat DOES NOT cost $450. I got a brand new, top of the line Random Tech cat for only 200. I've seen good high flow cats for 40 or 50 on Ebay. DO NOT buy that 450 piece of crap.

Plugs cost a few dollars each. Go buy some normal bosch ones at Discount Auto or wherever. You can buy good NGK TR55 plugs and Taylor Spiro Pro wires off of http://www.thunderracing.com . You'll save probably around 40.

Labor for the cat is a little high. Shouldn't take that long to do. Fuel Filter is maybe 30 or 40 w/ labor at Pepboys are some other place like that.

And I have no idea what fuel induction is. Maybe you mean Fuel Injection. If so, that price is a little high and you don't necessarily need to do it. It is part of regular maintenance on the car, but if you want to save money, go buy some octane booster instead.

 

Not sure for what years, but if there is misfiring and THE COMPUTER RECORDS IT, the dealer will replace the wires that are misfiring for free.

Be certain the computer has registered a code for it otherwise the dealer will blow you off. It happened to me twice before I just got all new wires and plugs.