Got pulled by Evo, and 2 350Z's get taken to walkedville!!
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
Got pulled by Evo, and 2 350Z's get taken to walkedville!!
First race was me against a buddy of mine that has a new Lancer Evo. I really like the car, it handles good, pulls hard and looks nice in my opinion. Basically it does everything well. We have been talking about racing for a week or two now just out of curiousity. Well his previous best was 12.9 @107 and since has added a full turbo back exhaust with cat delete and maybe an AFC. But those are the only two mods he has currently. So we get on the interstate and do a 45 roll first, which is the bottom of second for me, and top of second for him. It was pretty ugly for the Z!! Next two were higher rolls like 55 and 65, and the faster the starting speed the better I fared. The last one from 65 he pulled some in third, and at the top of fourth we planed out, I'm really not sure what would have happened if we had kept going but I don't really feel comfortable racing well over 100 so I shut down with him ahead and holding.
Next few races I was riding in the Evo. We raced some 350Zs that belong to buddies of ours. One is a track edition, not sure of the other one but it has a bunch of bolt on stuff like intake, headers, intake plenum and a few other things I think. They did better than I thought they would against the Evo but it was still pretty bad. We probably hit it up about 5 times on the interstate with those guys.
Oh well, fun night of racing!!
Next few races I was riding in the Evo. We raced some 350Zs that belong to buddies of ours. One is a track edition, not sure of the other one but it has a bunch of bolt on stuff like intake, headers, intake plenum and a few other things I think. They did better than I thought they would against the Evo but it was still pretty bad. We probably hit it up about 5 times on the interstate with those guys.
Oh well, fun night of racing!!
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
Ok, here's the exact words of the Evo owner as for his mods "I have a catless 3" Buschur Racing O2-back exhaust, a Hallman MBC to restrict overboost and keep the car at 19psi, and an SAFC". I don't know too much about these cars, but maybe this will help some of you guys.
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
Yea, they can be very fast. Hell they run almost 20 pounds of boost stock! Add to that really good gearing and although it has AWD it still accelerates hard on the interstate.
I certainly didn't want to race him from a stop with me on street tires, cause that would equal big embarrassment for me! However, you have to realize that a stalled automatic is not the best choice for a highway race. Good for consistency at the track but it gives up on the interstate. I also think my car is still running rich, so I will be ordering tunercat software next week and will be playing with it. The plan is to get a dead on tune, then look at getting a six speed swap this summer. Although the auto is fine now I don't know how much longer it will last. That and this setup is really for the dragstrip, and I have probably been to the track twice since the new setup. It's more important to me at this point to have a car that will do well from a roll on. Also with the six speed at some point I could do some chassis/suspension work and try some road race stuff.
I certainly didn't want to race him from a stop with me on street tires, cause that would equal big embarrassment for me! However, you have to realize that a stalled automatic is not the best choice for a highway race. Good for consistency at the track but it gives up on the interstate. I also think my car is still running rich, so I will be ordering tunercat software next week and will be playing with it. The plan is to get a dead on tune, then look at getting a six speed swap this summer. Although the auto is fine now I don't know how much longer it will last. That and this setup is really for the dragstrip, and I have probably been to the track twice since the new setup. It's more important to me at this point to have a car that will do well from a roll on. Also with the six speed at some point I could do some chassis/suspension work and try some road race stuff.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 97
From: Reno, NV
Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
However, you have to realize that a stalled automatic is not the best choice for a highway race. Good for consistency at the track but it gives up on the interstate.
However, you have to realize that a stalled automatic is not the best choice for a highway race. Good for consistency at the track but it gives up on the interstate.
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
Well, from my experience a stock automatic is noticeably slower on the interstate than a six speed. You can see this by looking at trap speeds of stock vs. stock autos and manuals. Usually you'll see about a 2mph diference I think, maybe a little less.
I'm assuming you are not that familiar with how a stall converter works so I'll do my best to explain. A converter that is rated higher than stock allows the engine to spin up more off the line for drag racing. More RPM on the line=the engine being closer to it's power band. It's great because you can get a good launch. Now the reason a converter is not that good from a roll- to allow the engine to spin up some more, the converter has to slip more than the stock one. Torque converters, regardless of what stall they are rated at will slip, the stock ones do, the aftermarket ones do. It's essentially a fluid coupling, the only mechanical lock with a torque converter is when the lock up clutch engages, and that lockup will not happen at wide open throttle. Now, more slip from a higher stall torque converter helps me get off the line at the track, but what does that slip do when I'm already off the line and rolling? This is one of the reasons that six speeds are superior for highway racing, no slip! Oh well, there's my lesson for today, hope it's correct, but I believe it is.
I'm assuming you are not that familiar with how a stall converter works so I'll do my best to explain. A converter that is rated higher than stock allows the engine to spin up more off the line for drag racing. More RPM on the line=the engine being closer to it's power band. It's great because you can get a good launch. Now the reason a converter is not that good from a roll- to allow the engine to spin up some more, the converter has to slip more than the stock one. Torque converters, regardless of what stall they are rated at will slip, the stock ones do, the aftermarket ones do. It's essentially a fluid coupling, the only mechanical lock with a torque converter is when the lock up clutch engages, and that lockup will not happen at wide open throttle. Now, more slip from a higher stall torque converter helps me get off the line at the track, but what does that slip do when I'm already off the line and rolling? This is one of the reasons that six speeds are superior for highway racing, no slip! Oh well, there's my lesson for today, hope it's correct, but I believe it is.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 97
From: Reno, NV
Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
Well, from my experience a stock automatic is noticeably slower on the interstate than a six speed. You can see this by looking at trap speeds of stock vs. stock autos and manuals. Usually you'll see about a 2mph diference I think, maybe a little less.
I'm assuming you are not that familiar with how a stall converter works so I'll do my best to explain. A converter that is rated higher than stock allows the engine to spin up more off the line for drag racing. More RPM on the line=the engine being closer to it's power band. It's great because you can get a good launch. Now the reason a converter is not that good from a roll- to allow the engine to spin up some more, the converter has to slip more than the stock one. Torque converters, regardless of what stall they are rated at will slip, the stock ones do, the aftermarket ones do. It's essentially a fluid coupling, the only mechanical lock with a torque converter is when the lock up clutch engages, and that lockup will not happen at wide open throttle. Now, more slip from a higher stall torque converter helps me get off the line at the track, but what does that slip do when I'm already off the line and rolling? This is one of the reasons that six speeds are superior for highway racing, no slip! Oh well, there's my lesson for today, hope it's correct, but I believe it is.
Well, from my experience a stock automatic is noticeably slower on the interstate than a six speed. You can see this by looking at trap speeds of stock vs. stock autos and manuals. Usually you'll see about a 2mph diference I think, maybe a little less.
I'm assuming you are not that familiar with how a stall converter works so I'll do my best to explain. A converter that is rated higher than stock allows the engine to spin up more off the line for drag racing. More RPM on the line=the engine being closer to it's power band. It's great because you can get a good launch. Now the reason a converter is not that good from a roll- to allow the engine to spin up some more, the converter has to slip more than the stock one. Torque converters, regardless of what stall they are rated at will slip, the stock ones do, the aftermarket ones do. It's essentially a fluid coupling, the only mechanical lock with a torque converter is when the lock up clutch engages, and that lockup will not happen at wide open throttle. Now, more slip from a higher stall torque converter helps me get off the line at the track, but what does that slip do when I'm already off the line and rolling? This is one of the reasons that six speeds are superior for highway racing, no slip! Oh well, there's my lesson for today, hope it's correct, but I believe it is.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2
From: Franklin, TN, USA
I think once John gets his tuning software, I'll be the one getting taken to walkedville. 
There are a couple of mods coming to try to improve my car, but if he does that 6 speed swap and keeps modding his car, my time of hanging with the Z will be over. Maybe I can bribe the UPS man to "lose" his tuning software package. 
There are a couple of mods coming to try to improve my car, but if he does that 6 speed swap and keeps modding his car, my time of hanging with the Z will be over. Maybe I can bribe the UPS man to "lose" his tuning software package.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Costa Mesa, CA
Well this tuning software is a crap shoot. How well it works depends on how far off my "mail order" tune is. The six speed swap will help more, but that's not gonna happen soon. Oh and the UPS man can't lose it, I get it sent via email
You should come over and lend some tuning experience! I'm a new-b at this but have been reading up on it.
You should come over and lend some tuning experience! I'm a new-b at this but have been reading up on it.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,521
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Oh yea, no one has said anything about the two 350Zs, but just for the hell of it here's some info
The track edition has a reworked intake plenum by Crawford Z car service, Crawford high flow catalytic converters, fujitsubo Y-pipe, Apex N1 exhaust.
The other one has Jim Wolfe popcharger intake w/ Injen upper tube, crawford plenum, headers and high flow cats.
The track edition has a reworked intake plenum by Crawford Z car service, Crawford high flow catalytic converters, fujitsubo Y-pipe, Apex N1 exhaust.
The other one has Jim Wolfe popcharger intake w/ Injen upper tube, crawford plenum, headers and high flow cats.
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 11
From: Milledgeville, GA
The SAFC helped the EVO a lot. Instead of going for more boost (19psi stock is huge already) he can tune it properly, removing the extra fuel the factory calls for. Leaning it out some can make big gains. Leaning too far = kaboom 
This improves peak power some but improves the power under the curve a lot more. That's where the real gains happen.
You've also got to keep in mind while tuning that a a/f mixture that's safe for a 1/4 mile blast may be too lean for top end runs over 120. An EGT gauge is a good addition to any modified turbo car to keep an eye on combustion temps. I've turned the **** a few clicks richer in the middle of runs before (an advantage of the old style AFC - just *****) on my old DSMs.
This improves peak power some but improves the power under the curve a lot more. That's where the real gains happen.
You've also got to keep in mind while tuning that a a/f mixture that's safe for a 1/4 mile blast may be too lean for top end runs over 120. An EGT gauge is a good addition to any modified turbo car to keep an eye on combustion temps. I've turned the **** a few clicks richer in the middle of runs before (an advantage of the old style AFC - just *****) on my old DSMs.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 26
From: Irmo, S.C
This reminds me of a drivetrain hp loss poster I saw on the wall of the dyno shop I use. It said:
Manual tranny 15%
Auto Tranny 20%
Auto with aftermarket Tc 25%
If that's correct, then your looking at about around a 10% rwhp diff. between the manual and the stalled auto.
Jason
Manual tranny 15%
Auto Tranny 20%
Auto with aftermarket Tc 25%
If that's correct, then your looking at about around a 10% rwhp diff. between the manual and the stalled auto.
Jason
Originally posted by Steve Y
Why is a stalled automatic so much worse on the interstate than a 6-speed? A stock automatic is not much worse than a stock 6-speed on the interstate.
Why is a stalled automatic so much worse on the interstate than a 6-speed? A stock automatic is not much worse than a stock 6-speed on the interstate.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 56
From: Nashville,TN
Z cars rule man !!!!!!!! The wheelz on tha track crapdition add mad power man. I bet u got OwNed fEwl. Hey next time you go z car spankin you better give your pal a call. Is the Evo the same person that had the Prelude ? I gave up on the alarm it's going in tomorrow. BOO HOO HOO !
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 133
From: Roanoke, VA
Originally posted by FastZinTennessee
Torque converters, regardless of what stall they are rated at will slip, the stock ones do, the aftermarket ones do
Torque converters, regardless of what stall they are rated at will slip, the stock ones do, the aftermarket ones do
nice death/kill, btw.