So you are saying every single LS1 6-speed that came from GM has exactly the same hp and torque curve from idle to redline? No way. There are engine, trans, clutch and rear end factory variations in any assembly line process. I run a manufacturing plant, and I can tell you all the pieces that come off the line vary some with each other.

 

kinda like the excuses that LT1 owners give when they lose to an L98?

good run but next time actually race him. dont pull that stupid jump-him-at-the-light-and-call-the-win crap. race atleast a 1/4 of a mile or a predetirmined amount.

 

Did I say that? Go back and quote me, please. Be specific.

Let me save you the trouble. Not only did I NOT say that, I even used an example that showed two different - but same model - hypothetical engines making ~7% difference in power. I also showed why they wouldn't be considered "factory freaks".

You're right. No way well every single xyz motor make exactly the same hp and curve from idle to redline. Then again, look up - that's not what I said.

With all due respect......duh.

 

Whats this?steve y and bob cosby suddenly disagreeing on something?amazing.absolutely amazing.lol.Not trying to be an *** Im just saying you guys are usually on the same side.

 

You said don't believe in factory freaks. Then you said that engines power will vary from same engine to same engine. What do you think a factory freak is? It is a car with a motor that is a little more powerful than the average one. It is a car that runs faster than the average one. I guarantee if you took 100 bone stock LS1 6-speeds of the same model year, with the exact same options, same driver, same track, same weather, same everything, some would be faster than others. The faster ones are factory freaks, the slower ones are dogs, and the average ones are average.

 

Good point.

 

Define "little". I don't think 2-3% above or below the average should be considered a "freak". If you do, then ok.

Be definition of average, some will be slower than others, and some will be faster than others. Could be by the absolute smallest of margins. I still don't see where "freak" comes in here. If you do, then ok.

By how much? A hundreth? A tenth? A mph? A tenth of a MPH? Be careful - if you have no data to back up your guarantee, then you're essentially basing your conclusions on pure conjecture.

See above about the definition of average. If those "faster than average" are freaks by your line of thinking, then ok.

Let me state this again:

I Don't believe in "factory freaks".

Freak drivers? You bet.
Freak tracks? Yup.
Freak dynos? Sure.
Freak weather conditions? Without a doubt.

Factory freak cars? Nope - no such animal. Most such thoughts can be attributed to the above.

And to add....yes, ultimate RWHP will vary slightly from car to car (see the example I gave in my previous reply). A slight variation (slight = 1-3% in my eyes) does not equal a factory freak.

 

2 supposedly identical LS1 engines vary by as much as 20+ rwhp. 2 supposedly identical cars can trap 4 or 5 mph different and e.t. 4 or 5 tenths different on the same day, with the same drivers, same everything except the cars. I know, the dyno is nothing but a tuning tool. So that means I have a chance with 10 million rwhp cars, right? Wrong.

 

But bob,wouldnt a bone stock lt1 that runs mid 13s which some have run be considered a factory freak?

 

I think this needs to be looked at a little closer.
What options do these cars have, tires used, track conditions, driver weight, etc?
I have a friend that had an 95 Z28 without PW, PL, rear defroster, T-Tops, etc.
It was a 6 speed car.
So odds are this car had to be somewhat lighter than the "average" car, since the motor was pushing less weight, that doesn't mean that the motor was stronger than anyother LT1 out there.

 

I have heard two rumors about "factory freaks" and was wondering if anyone else has also? The first rumor I heard is that "factory freaks" are only black and thats because they were actually made for police departments but never made it to one so they were sold just solid black from dealerships. The other rumor I heard is that out of every thousand or so one was put together by GM Techs and not the factory so they came off the show room floor with more horsepower than the rest. Once again this is just what I heard and was wondering if anyone else has heard these rumors also.

Factory Freak or not congrats on the wins

Brenden

 

Brenden. No. Sorry.

About as much of a freak as a 1998 Cobra running 13.6 @ 104, wouldn't you say? And oh BTW...that Cobra dyno'd at 255 RWHP (an M6 LT1 would be pretty close to the same). So what makes it a "freak"? Easy: The driver, the track, the weather, luck.

Do you just totally ignore what I write, or do you intentionally ignore bits and pieces so that you can try to make a point that makes absolutely no sense at all?

The example I showed had one LS1 10 RWHP below normal, the other was 10 above normal. That means that the "freak" (your term, not mine) has a whopping 10 RWHP more than the average, run of the mill "non-freak". Is this (or even 20 RWHP) going to make 4 to 5 mph or .4 to .5 tenths difference? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Those differences are made by all the things I mentioned above.

You have ZERO data from the same driver on the same day on the same track with 2 or more bone stock cars making back to back passes to back up your claims. You basing your arguement on assumption, conjector, and wishful thinking because a "freak" is the only way to explain why xyz's car runs better than abc's car.

Go on living in your fantasy land. I'll go on driving and racing in the real world.

 

Absolutely not true on both myths.
The option B4C is what designates a Camaro as a Police package car.
They are no different than a normal Z28 LT1 besides they have a bigger altenator.

 

Here's another way to look at this... for a long time Z06's were running mid 12s in magazine reviews. Even the owners of the cars were running mid 12s, and every once in a while you'd see or hear of one running low 12s. Now there are guys who have run high 11s on a BONE STOCK Z06, and even a magazine has done it. Factory freaks? Nope. Ranger dyno'd his car and it was right around 350 rwhp, IOW, just an average result. He did it with the Driver Mod -- improve the driver, you improve not only the E.T. of the car, but the MPH.

I don't think there are any factory freaks either, although it's really just a semantics issue. Just due to the Bell curve, we WILL have motors that dyno low, and we WILL have motors that dyno high. Some will be EXTREME examples. Some will call those freaks. It's just a matter of what you want to call it.

 

When you aren't making sense, yes I ignore what you write. I know there are cars that run stronger than others given all the same conditions, especially GMs. They have a wide range of what is acceptable that comes off of their assembly line. I have been driving and racing in the real world for 15 years. I know their are factory freaks. You are the one that doesn't believe it. Why don't you get 10 bone stock LS1 cars, all exactly the same and race them on the same day with the same driver. They will not all run the same e.t. and trap speed. I bet they will vary by almost a half second and 5 mph. We might as well agree to disagree because you will never get me to believe you on this and I doubt you will believe me.