WhiteKnight2001

Here's a vid of my friend and I racing. Camaro is an automatic Mustang is a 6 speed manual. Enjoy the vid.

[autostream]http://autostream.com/camaroz28/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=1754& transactionid=1316396064-12205434&posted_by=WhiteKnight2001_www.camaroz28.c om&youtube_video_id=1XBhO0PEFlQ[/autostream]

John M

Looks a lot closer when the launch is taken out of the equation. Could be the driver, could be traction control -- they're supposed to hook pretty well.

WhiteKnight2001

The mustang driver was not shifting very well...and he left launch control on, I turned mine off. I also have an auto which is why it doesn't do so well during the roll races where the mustang driver had a manual.

foxbat

good runs....you did damn good against a brand new more powerful car

WhiteKnight2001

Thank you. I went out there thinking I was going to get my butt kicked, just wanted to see how I'd do. The outcome surprised both of us, my friend now has a lot of respect for my car, but I still have more for his. Very fun races.

ChrisLS1Bird

Your friend doesn't seem like much of a race driver. It should be a close race, but he should have a mild pull on you every time. Those were pretty even launches. Maybe your friend has an awesome short-shifting theory. You know, why rev it past peak HP? Just wasting time.

IMO, new M6 5.0s run just slightly faster than M6 LS1s, stock for stock. Don't tell a Ford guy that, though.

WhiteKnight2001

Are you sure about that last statement. I'm an obvious LS1 fan and I love these cars, they were great for their time and can still hold their own today with mild mods.

But a 2002 SS M6 was tested running a 13.5 or so for the 1/4 mile. Now we all know that's mostly bull****. A good driver can cut a 13.0, which in stock form is the very best these cars are capable of.

Now a 2011 Mustang GT was tested running a 12.7 in the 1/4 mile. With a good driver they can probably hit 12.4 or 12.5. half a second between the two is a good lead to me.

foxbat

a properly driven m6 5.0 will more than slightly beat a properly driven ls1 m6 stock vs stock with both engines having been broken in.

98-02 m6 ls1 is slower than a 2010-12 m6 camaro ss which is marginally slower than a 5.0 m6

sorry, but ford has the upper hand with the new 5.0

dennis5374

Lol I haven't seen a stock 2010 ss touch a stock ls1 camaro or bird at the track. What does the ls1 camaro weigh in at? I know my lt1 is 3240 lbs. Depending on trim packages and options I've heard of new camaro weighing in at 3900-4000. They may have more power bur they're heavier then a dead minister. We have a guy that just spent an easy 10k in his 2010 ss. Lol 576whp and he can't run a 13 flat. Power doesn't mean **** unless u hook but this guy bought some junk sumitomo tires that smoke 3/4 of the way down the track.

ChrisLS1Bird

I've been to the track a bunch, and have seen and raced many new Camaros and two new 5.0s (one manual, one auto). New Camaros are dogs, given the mammoth HP ratings. The autos are at best mid-13 cars, though I usually see high 13s out of them (even with minor bolt-ons). An auto SS with a Vortech kit and drag radials did 12.3@113. The M6 cars are a more rare sight, but they usually turn mid to low 13s at 106-108.

I agree with your statement, foxbat, that the new Camaros are marginally slower than the new 5.0s. But that only puts the new 5.0s in the low 13s. That is all I have seen. The auto I raced ran 13.4@107 (at no point competing with my 12.50 car) and the M6 I saw race several times turned a best of 13.3@108. Chevy tried its best to offset all the new HP in the Camaro with added weight (customers notice HP, not weight). The new 5.0 suffers from pork, too, but to a lesser extent.

This is at HRP (Houston), by the way, which is at sea level and is not known for being a slow track. It's not a fast track, either.

You will, of course, blame the drivers for not running 12s. And you'll cite examples from all over the internet and all through the magazines in support. But the fact of the matter is we will never know whether we are comparing apples to apples with the drivers. If you want to go there, take the most exceptional example for both cars. I recall there were some stock 12 second LS1 times, too.

My LS1 Firebird M6 ran 13.3@108 stock. My stock LS1 Z28 M6 ran 13.4@106 stock. These were both with mediocre 2.2 60ft times, so I guess they are not the absolute maximum "good driver" times. Whatever. As I stated, IMO (= in my opinion), the new 5.0s are just slightly faster than M6 LS1s, which are typically low 13 second cars. I see just a few tenths and a couple mph difference between them, which equals a slight pull. Ford does finally have the upper hand on the LS1 F-body.

ChrisLS1Bird

Was the 12.7 really achieved without a good driver? Let's keep this chain going. 12.7 with, obviously, a bad driver. 12.4 with a good driver. 12.1 with a great driver. 11.80s with an experienced drag racer.

What does that make all the chumps I see at the drag strip?

Come on, man...time to redefine a "good driver." And, for that matter, "properly driven." For fanboys of a certain car (and I'm not saying you are one), what that really means is "best driver" and "perfectly driven in ideal conditions." I only see about one of these "good drivers" when I hit the drag strip, and usually he's also a "good tuner" with "good power" and "good parts."

Anyway, since we will likely never see a "good driver" in each car we want to compare, we get to argue endlessly on the internet about how the race should go. Fun.

foxbat

how about this, since we're bench racing here, take a professional driver familiar with both a stock low mileage m6 ls1 and 5.0, and let him run the 1/4, in both cars independently, back to back. i guarantee you the 5.0 is at least .3 to .5 seconds faster and trapping at least 3-5 more mph. that is more than just 'slightly.'

we need to give credit whether gm or ford fans. gm ruled during the lt1 and ls1 years, but the new 5.0 is clearly a faster, and quicker car than an ls1, period. anyone who goes quoting stock 12 second ls1's is mistaken. that happened ONCE by a gmhtp driver 10 years ago, and it was 12.9. rarely ever repeated. the average decent driver who knows how to shift will easily beat 12.9 in a new 5.0. 99% of all stock ls'1s were never in the 12's.

ChrisLS1Bird

I'm not taking any off because I don't like Fords - maybe I just haven't seen enough of them. To reconcile, I'll give you the .3 quicker/3 mph faster. We're in the same ballpark. Where we disagree is in the adverb. I just don't think that difference amounts to more than "slightly." What, 2-3 cars at the end of the quarter? That's a slight pull through the gears. In fact, it's what I told the OP should have happened in his race. If you're looking for credit that the new 5.0 blows the doors off an LS1, you won't get it from me based on what I've seen. Guess I haven't even seen an average decent driver behind the wheel of a 5.0 yet. My friend at work has an auto 5.0; maybe I'll test him.

As an aside, to me it's more impressive that the LS1 f-body standard of performance is still this relevant fully 14 years after the first one rolled off a lot than it is that Ford finally has a GT that can put a couple cars on one. For the 5.0, it's more of a reaction "it's about damn time." Just a little late.

Feenix

Actually I could care less about the 5.0 vs ls1 topic, but this caught my eye and I've witnessed in 2 different occasions this to be false. Once was a 2002 firehawk 100% stock piloted by a buddy of mine that went 12.7@110 in good air on a cool november day, and dynoed 321 rwhp 333 ft lbs 100% stock as well. That was on street tires.

I also witnessed a 02 SS at a local track with drag radials but otherwise 100% stock run 12.6@110. So they are out there. Even if they're hiding in the cracks of backwoods america.

henryz28

Stock for stock the new 5.0 is faster than the 03-04 cobra; they are strong. A car with slightly more weight and a N/A 5.0 can now beat the older lighter supercharged stangs; that is a huge improvement. The guy that tuned my car has tuned a couple of these; one with just exhaust cold air intake and a tune it put down 412rwhp on a dynodynamics dyno. With equal drivers and mods ls1 fbodys should be a few cars back; that new 5.0 is a great sleeper, N/A fords used to be slow but not this one.