This is a ricer arguement. How about we expand that a bit and mention that we're also comparing a V10 to a V8 and an M6 to an A4?

The word "if" sure can be used to make up for excuses, huh? What "if" the L had a V10? What "if" the L had a T56?

See the point? "If" doesn't hack it. And it is apples to apples because it is what they come with from the factory.

Incorrect assumption. The current L was available long before anything was there to compete with it - be it GM, Dodge, or anybody else.

The Mustang vs F-body issue is entirely different because in spite of the F-body's lead in performance, Ford continued to sell way more cars, and whether we (as enthusiasts) like it or not, selling cars is the bottom line.

Could you please explain that? Why couldn't GM's killing of the F-body be considered a "bitch move?" Using your logic, I could claim that GM killed it because they couldn't compete with the new blown Cobra. Of course that is a silly arguement - but no more incorrect in its assumption than yours.

See above.

Incorrect. Ford put a blower on the Cobra in order to significantly improve performance. Once it was obvious that the F-body was dead, they put their sights on the Vette - not the Z06. Even then, the Cobra is marginally quicker than a normal C5, but cannot touch it in overall handling.


Perhaps. Perhaps GM isn't as great as you think they are?

"I bet" is much like "if" above, and ends up being another ricer arguement. They didnt, so it isn't, so it is irrelevant.

FYI....03/04 Cobra's typically put down 360-370 RWHP in stock trim. That's 410-420 rated (flywheel) HP.
Once again, reference ricer arguements above, and then add speculation to the list of terms.

Where do you get this "government approval" thing? Please provide some factual reference to back this up. Thanks.

Might want to go find a mirror.

Almost nobody uses Hypertech. However, $100 is quite unrealistic for any sort of chip and/or tune.

See above for Gov't references.

Dumb arguement. I've 'seen' LS1 F-bodies get that same 15 hp from a CAI and nearly as much for exhaust as you claim. Does this mean that the LS1 was just as "detuned" as you claim the Cobra is?

We are all welcomed to our opinions. However, your premise that Ford didn't do this till after GM killed the F-body is flawed. The blown Cobra was being developed several years before the F-body died, and at least some amount of time prior to the news that 2002 would be its last year. This is why the term "Terminator" is often used to describe 03 Cobras.

Finally - HP is HP. Whether it comes from displacement, multi-valves, blowers, or turbos - HP is HP. The Cobra came from the factory with a blower. The LS1 did not.

Life....it's so much easier when you just deal with it vice making excuses.

 

where have you seen a ls1 make 30 rwhp witha cat back? maybe with headers back. but not cat back
and where have you seen a lid give a ls1 15 np at the wheels? i ask because
i have both cat back and cai and got about 15 rwhp for the both!! gm killed the f-body cause of sales and sales period! and the goverment thing it's called smog control and pick up a horse power mag and read it and then you'll find your facts and that why they gain so much
power from exhuast and cai!
WHERE IS YOUR FACTUAL PROOF! I DIDN'T KNOW IT TOOK SEVERAL YEARS TO PUT BLOWER ON A 32V 4.6L

AND BY THE WAY WHAT DO YOU DRIVE?

 

I've gotta agree with Bob. If this, if that, coulda' woulda' shoulda' -- didn't. A similar argument goes the other way... Mustang or 4 banger owners complain that "well yeah, but I'm giving up so much displacement" -- well so friggin what? YOU made the decision to buy the car. The LS1 didn't come with a blower, and you could get a blown Mustang with a factory warrantee before the Cobra came out. Saleen.

Blackbird... you think having a restrictive air intake and exhaust is due to smog regulations? Say what???

Restrictive intakes are indeed a byproduct of governmental regulations, but it is NOT because of smog issues. Maybe you can do a search and figure out the real reason. Restrictive exhausts (except Cats) has nothing to do with smog issues either.

As for the Terminator, YOU might just pop a supercharger on a motor, but if you want to WARRANTEE the thing, you won't do a hack job like that. You'd need to beef up the motor, beef up the suspension and beef up the drivetrain aft of the motor. Good thing you're not in charge of SVE.

http://www.jimmy.stangnet.com/Cobra_Terminator.htm
please note that the date of the article is April 2001, which is prior to the demise of the Fbody.

Here's another article:
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...f_thunderroad/

 

sorry i said smog but you know what i ment by goverment regulation. and cat are part of the exhuast right so smog does have something to do with exhuast and how many cats does the cobra have? 2 or more. and you are right i did buy the car that i wanted and i will buy a new cobra too all i was getting at is that if ford would have put out the new cobra a few years sooner GM might have boosted power in the ls1 to compete or maybe the ls6? how knows? it's all about freindly compatition and it all works out better for us the consumer. the hp the better!

 

also the end of the f-body was brewing long long before 2001 maybe around 96-97 i can't exactly remember but i think it was popular hot roddinr mag that ran the artical.

 

Please read what I wrote - not what you wanted to read. I have never seen an LS1 gain 30 RWHP from a catback.

Do a search on www.ls1tech.com

Perhaps you got one of those "unfreaks" that we discussed on this very forum a few days ago?

Sorry - inside joke. Once again, do a search on LS1Tech.

There might have been a bit more to it, but that was the bottom line, IMHO.

Horsepower mag? Which one? I only get MM&FF, 5.0 & Super Fords, and the NMRA's Race Pages each month.

So you're saying that Ford had to put more restrictive exhaust (cats and mufflers) on the blown Cobra than they did on pre-blown Cobras? Please clarify.

"Proof", or at least some evidence, was presented above. There was rumor and talk as early as 2000. And Ford didn't take several years to "put a blower on a 32V 4.6L". There is much done to the car than just adding a blower.

Please see sig.

Correct. Actually, it is 4 or more....as it has been for several years.

I have no issues with friendly competition.

 

No, I don't know what you mean. What government regulation was responsible for the restricted intake on a Cobra? If you don't know the answer, just be a man about it and say you don't know.

new cobra a few years sooner GM might have boosted power in the ls1 to compete or maybe the ls6? how knows?

GM DID boost the power. It's called the Z06. They've done even better and now the base Corvette will have (nearly) the same Hp. The next Z06 will be a world beater (price/performance) once again.

 

The Z06 is an awesome machine, and unmatched for all-around performance by anything anywhere near its price. I came VERY close to buying one when trying to decide between that an the 04 Cobra I ended up with.

 

Isn't the '04 Cobra quite a bit cheaper than a new/newer C5 Z06 ?

 

Bob, got any times yet with your new Cobra? Any mods waiting to be put on?

TONY

 

A Google search turned up an MSRP of ~$35-39,000 for the 04' Cobra. New Corvette Coupes are ~$42,000 and Z06's are ~$51,000. Used Z06's (2002-2003) with less than 10k on the odometer will usually sell in the Cobra's price range so...... pick the one you like and go from there.

I would encourage anyone considering a purchase to go and drive the cars. They are very different (Cobra and Vette) in regards to ride and power delivery.

Now back to that Hemi debate....

-Mindgame

 

On a couple of side notes:
The Detroit Auto Show car that had the first modular 4.6 installed was a Blown DOHC making 450BHP. I don't remember the year though. I believe it was '90. So the thinking that the current Cobra motor was a long-term engineering process that finally arrived in the late '90's is not true. I'd say fine tuning and SVT touches helped take the engineering mule from '90 or so and make it what it is today.

Ford also demonstrated a 4.0L inline 6 that was diagonally placed in the engine compartment with a center driven gearset that allowed the transmission to be placed in a normal RWD layout, even though the engine was perpendicular to it.

TankII

 

Tony....nothing yet. Mods will wait till I see what I can make it do in stock trim.

TankII...that may be true, but I don't see where it applies to the issue at hand. Gearheads have been putting blowers on basically stock motored Mustangs for many many years. When it comes to something from the factory, this simply isn't possible. There is a lot more to the 03/04 than just the addition of the blower. Additionally, everything from the early modulars is now different - from cams to heads to blocks to intakes to ignition. Everything.

 

the mustang and corvette are way different catagories i was talking more in terms of mustang - f-body they might have up the hp in the LS1 to compete? who knows? and don't say they woudn't do that because of this and that! because unless your high up at GM then you don't know.

 

Backpedal, backpedal...

Again, what was the reason for the government imposed restrictive intake on a Cobra? (hint: not smog)