I am reassembling a top end on a 95 TA, and have a question about reseating the heads. I have them on there straight and can tell the guide bumps on the back and front are where they are supposed to be, but the heads are not sitting flush on the block.

I.E. - If the front of the head is sitting flush on the block, the back is about 1/8 inch off the block and vice versa. Is this normal, and will the head bolts suck the head down flush when I start tightening them?

Also, a local, very trusted engine builder said to use Permatex #2 on the threads and under the head of the head bolts to ensure good water jacket seal. Anybody have experience using this stuff?

 

Can you push the heads down? They should be flat against the gasket beofre you tighten anything.

I wouldn't recommend Permatex gasket maker on the bolts. Use Teflon on the threads and engine oil under the head of the bolt. Putting Permatex under the head of the bolt makes no sense at all..the threads are supposed to do the sealing, not the bolt head.

 

Hate to say it but it sounds like your heads are warped or something. I rebuilt my engine twice and my heads were always 100% flush to the gasket.

 

THose guide bumps are sometimes a tight fit. I had to lightly tap my heads on with a plastic mallet to get them over the bumps. Try that and I'll bet they will sit flush.

 

This was my first thought too. They are straight because they were just pressure tested and planed. I will try a little more elbow grease tomorrow.

 

Took a 5/16 drill bit and bored the hole a little bit, and now they fit like a dream with almost no play on the *****.

NEXT QUESTION - How much of the head bolt threads should I cover with sealant? top half, bottom half, all? And how much sealand do I need to use on each bolt?

 

Cover the entire threaded portion with enough teflon so the thread 'valleys are filled. Extra doesn't hurt anything but not having enough might.

 

Since I use ARP head bolts, I always use their thread sealant on the threads and their lube under the heads of the bolts and under the head bolt washers.

In the past, when I re-used stock bolts, I always used Permatex #2 on the threads and 30W oil on the heads of the bolts and under the washers. #2 was always the specific recommendation for sealant listed in the shop manuals I have.

Make sure all the thread grooves are fully filled with sealant. Use your finger to work the sealant into the thread grooves. Then add a little more on top of that. Hard to explain in words exactly how much to use, but, I agree, more is better than too little. More won't hurt anything as long as it's a resonable amount.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Just a warning....do not use Permatex #2 on threads. It is NOT a thread sealant. This is a thread sealant......use the High temperature, not the high performance.



http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ad_Sealant.htm

 

I had leaking using this method. Suggest the thread sealant.

 

Actually it is a thread sealant. According to the maunfacturer, it's designed for use where sealing is more important than adhesion and is a semi-flexible sealant for threaded connections. That information was taken directly from the Permatex information sheet and the word SEALANT is right on the tube.

Without getting any further into a back and forth on this issue, it's been a recommended head bolt thread sealant for as far back as I can remember, and I'm referring to decades.

Of course there are several other thread sealants that will work as well, such as GM's 1052080, but #2 is more readily available and is carried by virtually all the auto parts stores. GM's FSM recommends 1052080 or equivalent, which #2 is.

In several of the engine build up articles I've read in mags such as Engine Masters, GM HIgh-Tech Performance, etc. it's been the sealant of choice.

I'm not inclined to beat on this anymore, so he can use whatever he wants. I merely advise on what I know has been proven to work, and with that I'm OUT.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Intersting. Permatex #2 is not a thread sealer, as some as you state, but a sealant. Here's a link to Permatex's website: http://www.permatex.com/products/aut..._2_Sealant.htm

Permatex #2 is also the equivalent of GM 1052080 but is not the GM recommended thread sealer. GM recommends using 12346004 Thread Sealant with PTFE for threaded connections. PTFE is Teflon... I have the factory manuals forboth my 94 and my wife's 99 'vette and in both they refer to using a PTFE based thread sealant on threaded connections except those on the O2 sensors.

Anyway, I really don't care what anyone uses in their engines. They are, after all, their engines.....

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

 

Wow, and all the time I thought I'd put this to bed.

Okay, PERMATEX issued a Technical Data Sheet, # 80011 which specifically lists "threaded connections" as a "typical application" for Permatex #2. Those quotes are from the Data Sheet.

Also, the Data Sheet lists as product benefits "Excellent for metal to metal assemblies" and "stops leakage". The Data Sheet also states it "seals flanges, fittings, connections and flexible assemblies against leakage."

Now, I could post the entire Data Sheet, but why keep beating on this dead horse. If anyone's THAT interested, the Data Sheet available on the internet or call PERMATEX at 1-877-376-2839, toll free.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

I mean no disrespect, Jake, I just simply disagree. Calling Permatex to see if they recommend their sealant or not is not a useful exercise in my mind as GM clearly recommends something else.

Like you and lots of other people, I have some experience building engines. I've personally built at least 6 small blocks and never had coolant leak through the thread holes..and I always use the GM recommended PTFE stuff. At least one of my friends used the ARP sealant on his threads and had issues.

I'm sure you've had great experience with the #2 product and I'm glad you did. However, if asked, and we were, I'll always recommend what the factory does....


Have a good day...

 

For Permatex 2, head bolts are not mentioned in the application guide anywhere. Sure, I will give you the fact that head bolts are a threaded connection, but they do list head bolts as an application for Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant.

In my experience, Permatex 2 gets very hard and very brittle. Over the long haul, there is nothing semi-flexible about it. It gets to the point where it will not flex at all. I used it to seal my front and rear oil pan gasket. At first it was fine. Over two months, it got hard, would not flex due to heat expansion, it cracked, and started leaking all kinds of oil. I had to redo the job with the right stuff. I think Permatex 2 is excellent on paper gaskets(for example: water pump gaskets, timing cover....just coat front and back lightly)

I also support using GM 12346004 Thread Sealant with PTFE for threaded connections. I just have not used it personally myself. I've always used Permatex High Temp Thread Sealant.

Anybody can use what you wish, I'm just offering my opinion based on my experience. Just for kicks and thrills. I'll call them tomorrow and see what they say.