I didn't take any offense. I basically took issue with the assertion that Permatex #2 isn't a thread sealer or doesn't qualify as "or equivalent". It really doesn't matter which thread sealer he uses as long as it meets the bolt manufacturer's recommendations. That's where the ". . . or equivalent" part kicks in.

GM, as does PERMATEX, has a vested interest in recommending their own products or those they're aligned with in business arrangements. As a result:

GM recommends their 1052080 "or equivalent" sealer for freeze plugs and even the dip stick tube. GM recommends "Molykoat or equivalent" to be used on the base of the flat tappet lifters, however most of us use the lube that comes with the cam. GM recommends RTV sealant 1052366 "or equivalent" but I'm betting the vast majority of us resort to the "or equivalent" versions.

GM recommends the use of certain tools (you know, the ones with the J- part number) that virtually none of us have or use. We all resort to the "or equivalent" versions.

Similar differences apply when, for example, lifter preload is set. GM says one full turn, yet CompCams and others specifically recommend .030 (+/- .010) which translates into 1/2 turn. Most of us use 1/2 turn (and many times even less) of preload.

GM says to use a 3/16" bead of silicone sealant on the China Walls, yet most of us, including me, realize that's too small a bead, as several recent posts have shown. Many guys have had to re-do their intakes when using a bead that small. 3/8" bead is the way to go.

Many years ago, one of my engines was waved off the starting line due to an intake China Wall oil leak. That was so embarrassing I vowed never to walk that road again. From that, I learned about bead size.

As another example, ARP emphatically emphasizes the use of their lube and sealant when using their head bolts. The instructions state NOT to use any other moly lube as that will result in accurate torque readings. ARP doesn't play the "or equivalent" game when it comes to the moly lube..

But just for the information to those who hard-headedly choose to use 30W oil instead of the recommended ARP moly lube on head bolts, ARP provides a different torque spec for the head bolts, some 10 ft lbs higher. After reading such warnings, I wouldn't be the sharpest knife in the drawer to ignore them and use 30W oil.

I could go on and on, but my basic premise is that the "or equivalent" aspect is used almost exclusively these days. On a few occasions it's necessary to follow the manufacturer's specific recommendation but other times the "or equivalent" is perfectly acceptable..

If Permatex #2 didn't work I wouldn't have posted that it does. In 2 weeks I'm going to change cam and heads on my son's 96 Vette. I'll be using ARP thread sealant and their moly lube since ARP says so. If I was going with re-using the stock head bolts, I'd be using Permatex #2 and, in fact, I already bought a new tube of #2, which I bought before I decided to go with new head bolts.

As far as teflon tape, at first I chose to remain silent on that issue, since I don't have any personal experience in using it on head bolt threads. However, since this issue seems to have taken on a life of its own, for the record, I don't believe it qualifies as "or equivalent".

Anyway, I never thought head bolt thread sealant would become so controversial. LOL

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Not dead yet, I see.

Okay, from the Data Sheet " It's a slow drying, flexible setting paste that changes to a pliable, non-hardening film through solvent evaporation". "PRODUCT BENEFITS Flexible Setting".

I ONLY use it on head bolt threads because of the environment in which they live. I've been searching my memory and seems I first started using it in the late 60s or early 70s. Every race and street engine I built got a dose.

But now I feel I've written about all I'm going to on this issue. If anyone doesn't want to use it, that's fine with me, don't To each his own.

And the band played on.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Well let me put it like this.......Permatex #2 is under "Gasketing" on their website. Permatex High Temp Thread Sealant is under "Thread Compounds". That alone should tell you something.

 

GM doesn't make chemicals, theirs are private labeled by people like the Permatex, Inc. A friend of mine at Permatex told me they are the supplier of the GM thread sealer 12346004...

Anyway, use whatever you like. I'm finished here....

 

I called Permatex today about our debate on Permatex #2 or Permatex High Temp. Thread Sealant.

He said that back in the 60's and 70's that #2 was used for head bolts into water jackets. He then told me that they do not recommend it anymore. You should go straight to the High Temp Thread Sealant. He said the PSI rating of the High Temp Thread Sealant was much better than number #2. He also said that over time #2 will get hard. This can allow leaks after multiple heat cycles. Where as the High Temp Thread Sealant will maintain flexibility. That combined with it's resistance to water, coolant, oil, and fuel makes it quite a bit superior to #2 as a thread sealant. He also made mention of the ability to re-torque the bolts(I forgot to ask how long after was possible)...but that is something not possible with #2.

So, for sealing head bolts into water jackets, #2 "can" be used, but Permatex always recommends the High Temp Thread Sealant.

I also mentioned my oil pan experience. He said that #2 and rubber gaskets do not go together. He gave me the thumbs up for replacing it with "The Right Stuff".

 

You guys can argue all you want but simply put, Permatex #2 non-hardening sealer is all we use to for bolts and studs - literally thousands of motors and it works better than all the other choices out there, especially liquid teflon.

Take it or leave it.

 

Not according to Permatex(when compared to their High temp thread sealant). Call them and confirm if you want. You guys remind me of how people used to say that carbs are better for daily driving than fuel injection....keep sticking by the old tech no matter what. I'm not saying that you are wrong in using it, but IMHO today there are better choices. Heck, if GM is using it(PTFE stuff)....that should say something.

What I can't understand is why you keep calling this stuff "non-hardening". I have personally seen this stuff get rock hard. There is nothing "non-hardening" about it.

 

Agreed.