My LCA's have been way off level ever since putting the Eibach kit on this last winter. Has anyone played around with LCA angles in an autocross environment? I'm wondering what they would do if I sat them level or closer to level. I know it was lessen roll understeer.

 

They're not legal for stock or street prepared classes, doesn't seem to hurt any of those cars (or mine). Not to say it wouldn't help some but....

 

so if relocation brackets arent legal for those two classes how are you supossed to have a lowered fbody out there? thanks. Trey

 

Using the brackets bumps you up to SM or CP one of the two because you're changing mounting points. I know FS and ESP cars seem to be fine as Sam Strano has told me (some roll understeer is good) but that odesn't mean they cannot be better. My LS1 pro-kit has my rear sitting at 26" even which has made some serious changes in LCA geometry. I'm wondering if bringing them closer to level (reducing my roll understeer and increasing my anti-squat) might help me put more power down on corner exit. I'm already in SM and am not going for points so if it's illegal it's not going to gain me anything.

 

Well, mine's lowered just about as much as it can be with no apparent ill effects. I haven't noticed any real changes now compared to stock height. Trey, when you take a ride with me I think you'll see what I'm saying. I'm not saying things can't be improved, just that to me, I can't feel anything out of the ordinary in terms of ill handling. My suspension is pretty much max'd out for ESP too.

 

I have them. But I've not run the car low without them so I can't compare.

Sam is not a advocate of the brackets, claims the car slaloms better without so next years car, same suspension, won't have them.

Personally I'm not convinced they help all that much with wheel hop, if anything, a band-aid rather than a cure. If I started from scratch again the first thing I would do is the shocks.

 

I agree, I believe that by not doing it, it makes the slalom control more stable and predictable.

On my old 2nd gen cars you could do that my re-drilling the mounting holes in the front brackets for the front of the rear springs, which I did on both of mine. I can't really tell you if it made that much difference though. It's not something I could feel.

There are MUCH more beneficial suspension changes to make before you start messing with that.

 

My car is pretty much maxed out for ESP rules. Except for my SFC's that bumped me into SM. I have the 35/(19/21) bars, revalved bilsteins, 400#/130# springs, double rod ended phb, torsen t2. Where I am lacking is driving experience and tires (FS size tires & kumho's). I'm just having fun trying things out.

 

If that's the case I wouldn't worry about the LCA's right now. You have pretty much what I have (500#/120#) with Koni Sa's in the front. I also have Energy Suspension busings and a STB (not sure whether that's worth it either, maybe with my 315 Hoosiers)

For me, it wouldn't be worth being bumped to SM just for that, not that you might not be competitive there, but I don't feel it's mod that will show up in improved times.

 

Um...in my personal experience...

Going from 26-ish in the rear to 27.5 made an enormous difference in traction.

This is with 275's Kumho Ecsta MX's, T2R, and 150 lb/in in the rear.

My LCA's are nearly level now (still a little tipped) and traction has increased dramatically - You can't hear the tires slip when it's longitudinally...so it appears that I used to slip the tires on most of my shifts, because all my shifts got much harder (that'll also explain the tire wear...).

There were no other changes - just an overall raising of height of the car (GC coil-overs).

Believe me...that torque reaction is worth something.

Sam is a bit of an odd case. He definitely knows his stuff, but a lot of it is tailored to his driving style. He's an incredible driver, and what works for him might not work for another.

I know that raising helped lower my times...which is probably both a combination of fixing roll centers and making the LCAs level.

Yes, it slaloms worse now because it doesn't transition as fast, but the out-of-corner exit speed more than makes up for it on courses I run on.

HTH,
Dan

 

ok maybe i should post this in another thread, but it is my understanding that when you lower a car you must get a new adjustable panhard and adjustable LCAs to realign the suspension geometry. with that being said i have driven my car for five months now and only just got a the PHR on a couple weeks ago. the LCAs are still not on. i think the car handles great, but then again my last daily driver was a 79TA with a 24 year old suspension.

so what gives? is it that relocation brakets are needed for launching the car at the drag strip more than they are for the twisties? or is it driving style and being used to what you have? thanks. Trey

 

The LCA brackets will give you more anti-squat. Most things I've read show about .1 second gain in your 60 ft times. And those gains are based on a dead stop launch. Now, would I call that a "must" for autocross?? Probably not, especially if it bumps me out of stock or street prepared.

To each their own though. Maybe now that Sam is finished in Topeka (congratulations on 3rd Sam, I'm sure it's not what you wanted but boy, I sure wouldn't complain!! ) he can lend more insight as to his experience with this issue.