Well, that was a quick response, just what you need to be a Road Racer!

For Draco, LuCiFeR97Z28, and todd15:

We can get together and talk about this. There's lots of time till next March when the driving school begins. If you each can send a little info about your expectations and your experience/skills to the email address in my profile, I'll get back to you with a date and location for us all to meet. Should be fun! Check the IROC out while you're at it, the URL is in the profile too.

Larry

 

I must admit that i've always had a thing for road racing too

i just dont like auto-x cuz i get lost between all those damn cones .. they all look the same

anyways .. keep me informed about the road racing plans ...

it will be a compromise for me to setup my car for both drag and road racing .... but i cant be playing Gran Turismo 3 on playstation 2 for the rest of my life either

 

I was just discusing with my (middle aged) assistant this article in tha paper. She agreed it was very good and of course I got into my thoughts on the issue including the "ban" on modifying your car.

We had a long debate on that issue as she agrees there SHOULD be a ban. However, she DID come up with an interesting alternative.

It does not seem COMPLETELY unreasonable to me that there should be some type of licensing process or - sorry to say this guys - an age restriction on modifing cars.

Lets say that you have to take a specialty driving school to be allowed to drive a modified car. That seems both reasonable and appropriate. She suggests there shold be an age restriction, say 25 years old as well. I know how you guys would feel about that.

Just consider the suggestions with an open mind. Maybe if you are under 25 years old you have to take an advanced driving school course?

All I'm saying is that it would be a compromise, an attempt by society to do something to address the issue and a tool for the police to deal with young problem drivers. Lets face it, taking an advanced driving school is not a bad idea anyway.

I'm not suggesting that it would stop the problem but it would help.

Again I'm not suggesting this would help our local "cultural" issue, but most other jurisdications that have private insurance charge a heavy insurance price to young drivers and that gets worse with more powerful cars. You young guys have it very good in that way. Maybe our young US cousins will chime in with their insurance costs.

Anyway, food for thought.

 

I say the age restriction is a ridiculous idea

Being older doesn't insure that you will be a better driver in anyway. The most simple fix which should be implemented before anything else is the construction of another track one that is in a neutral location and well open more than just once a week...........

 

That mod/age restruction doesn't sound like a very good idea to me...

A new viper comes with 500+ rwtq from the factory. You would have to heavily modify any other car to come close to this, yet you would be regulated whereas the owner of the viper would not be?

I think that even heavily modified cars can be driven on the street just as safely as stock cars. My car is not an extreme powerhouse, but it is definitely no harder to drive then it was when it was stock (except for the clutch, but you get used to it). I have absolutely no problems in the rain, it just takes restraing on my part.

Driving habits are not a function of the car or its modifications, but of the driver, and the choices he/she makes. It's the drivers we need to regulate, but in my opinion only if they have already proven that they do need regulating (and/or punishing). I see plenty of "adults" speeding around in their SUV's in the rain and snow deciding they can handle these conditions so much better then the rest of who dont have 4WD. They have one thing right - that if they do get into a crash, they are more likely to survive at the expense of whoever they collide with thanks to the mass and structure of their vehicle (barring a rollover).

I do however agree that advanced driving courses are a good idea - this would include wet weather emergency maneouvers, and stuff like that. I bet that 90% of the driving population does not know how to conduct a proper emergency stop/evasion in wet conditions, even if they have ABS on their cars.

I'm not a huge fan of higher insurance costs (in fact, most youths pay more then safe adult drivers anyway since they get no intial discount) - since there are quite a few safe youth drivers. I like the idea of charging high insurance rates to those who actually cause accidents, just like they do it now (this fits well with the premise that one is innocent until proven guilty).

Let's keep the discussion going guys, that is how we can possibly make a difference. We may even need all this as ammunition to help save our car culture.

 

Lets use a interesting analogy.

I think Canadians are happy that they do not have the gun culture that the Amerivcans have.

the NRA says, "guns don't kill people, pople kill people". And we in Canada say "yes, but if you don't have the guns laying around everywhere, people would have access to them to use them."

Modded cars don't kill people, people in modded cars kill people. That being said, if you make it more difficult for people to have modded cars - without banning them completely - you reduce the likelyhood that the modded car is abused.

Bottom line it is people. The modded car community HAS to put some tangible ideas on the table to assist society in dealing with the "proplem" people.

If that includes the car enthusiast community saying "yes, lets require a licensing process before being allowed to drive a moded car" then fine. Yes I know that the chap in quesiton may say, "well rather then modding my civic, I;'m just going to go buy a loaded TT Supra" well so be it.

Johnny:
quote "Being older doesn't insure that you will be a better driver in anyway"

No it doesn't BUT there is absolutely irrefutable proof that the majority of accidents remain young males. In both absolute terms and in demographic breakdown. Let me ask you this. You do a "burnout" at PK. Does that make you a "bad driver"? By whose definition? Not by yours and not by mine, but I'm araid 95% of the populatoin would define that as "bad driving". See my point?

We all agree on the problem. there are many routes to a solution and candidly they will not solve the problem. BUT we have to have ideas to help mitigate the problem. (new facilities, licensing etc)

 

Although you have to look at it this way, why should younger drivers be required to take advanced driving courses if they want a modded car? Why not make it so that anyone who wants a modded car would need to take such a course. The reason the majority of accidents point towards younger drivers is because there is more people under the age of 25 with Sports Cars. Even at that I don't think that will change anything, look we all take the driving test and well we learn that we are supposed to follow all the signs and speed limits. Do you? I know I sure don't. Now does that mean if I take an advanced driving course I will follow everything taught in that course? No. I feel people are going to continue to race if they are not provided a venue to enjoy there hobby, dozens of regulations can be put into place people will still continue to race. There isn't a venue to enjoy the hobby so right now the place to get the thrills is at a stop light.

Look at it this way Shaun. You have put a lot of money into your car now and a lot of hard work. Say next season people stay away from racing on the streets and well decide to visit the local track for all there thrills. Well with this in mind the track will be more packed than it was all last year. Say you don't make it in time or don't get through tech in time or well if they only get around to the domestic class 2-3 times in the night. Say these problems limit you to very few or no runs over say a period of 3-4 months.

I want you to answer this truthfully: After spending endless amounts of time, money, effort to build a car and not getting an opportunity to test it out would you not go for a full throttle run on an empty street???

All this money spent on man hours, programs, equipment to stop the problem should be put into the contruction of a local track which in turn will cut down the problem more than any other measure and well in turn will create revenue

 

After reading the posts, the general consensus is that everyone is discussing the modified car issue. Modified cars are not the problem. I know people who race their parents stock four-door family car against their friends. Just go to a high school when it lets out. Modifying cars makes them safer (suspension) if done properly. Shawn proposed the idea of the advanced driving school classes in order to have a modified car, I believe that after taking the course this would only make the street racers faster, they would know how to corner and learn how to handle the power. It is a good idea in theory, but you are forgetting the other people on the roads, the ones without the skills in stock cars, who panic when you pass them. You know the ones who as you change lanes to pass them on the hwy they panic and change lanes to avoid you.
I think if the government passes any legislation against modifying your car most of the people will just sell their cars and fork out the extra cash for a faster car. For example, instead of buying a 30 thousand dollar civic and putting 15 thousand dollars in modes they will just go buy a 45 thousand dollar Porsche.

hey buy thats just my oppinion

 

Very good point Johnny...when my car is finished in January, you can bet your *** I'm going to call my buddy in the '03 Cobra in a safe mannor of course. The only way for me to feel satisfied is more track time and when I have to come all the way from North Van...over 2 bridges, after work or school, there is now way I'll get there in time. On 2 occasions, I've left work and gone straight to Mission and missed out because they've reached their max amount of cars for the evening. One of those 2 nights, some of this board's members and I went and raced for at least an hour and a half, safely, without being caught in order to get our "fix."

What I suggest is for Mission to be open on a Wednesday evening. This way, you will most likely just get the hard core racers out, be less traffic because it isn't a weekend and it will releave some of the pressure from Friday nights. It makes no difference to me whether its on a Friday or Wednesday because I work on booth of those days and it usually isn't a late night when I go to the track anyways....Plus you could save your Fridays for what they are really meant for...Partying.

I vote for wed nights!

 

Shaun and JD: i just want to add my opinion about the age issue

its the relation between age and maturity (stupidity) that causes problems, not the relation between age and skills ...

some young drivers can be more skilled than older drivers and vice versa, but the issue here is their level of maturity / stupidity.

I know for a fact that when i was 16 i used to drive faster / do more stupid things on the road ... none of it lead to any accidents perhaps because of my level of skill... now that i'm 22, i am definately more skilled in driving.. but its the level of maturity that causes me to drive more responsibly...

so even if u put younger drivers in schools and advanced driving training ... that will only boost their confidence / cockiness (like watcher mentioned) ... as long as they are immature / irresponsible (due to age mostly) they will be dangerous on the road.

 

Modified cars do not kill people...it is the speeding of those modified cars that kill people. It is the speeding of ANY car, for that matter, that kills cars. This is a fact - speed is the number one factor of car-related deaths among youth. It doesn't matter if you're in a Ferrari 360, a Honda Civic, or a Camaro Z28. I probably drive faster in my winter beater than I did with my Vette or Z28....you don't need power/money/modifications to drive above the speed limit.

Speed, therefore, is the lowest common denominator in almost every street racing death in the past 5 years. Agreed, that many of the incidents involve certain minority ethnic groups. Agree, that many of the incidents involve modified vehicles. Agreed, that many of the incidents involve male drivers under the age of 25. But in order to maintain political civility and to avoid social unrest, speed is the only factor that should be targetted - this will ensure that the "wrong" socioeconomic sectors of the population are not pissed off.

With that being said - the solution must be to provide an outlet for this speed, OR training to handle this speed in a safe environment. The former option includes building new racing facilities, increasing the speed limit or legalizing, condoning, and supervising late night street racing. The latter option includes advanced driving courses and increasingly difficult license testing. I vote for an amalgamation of the aforementioned options. I disagree with harsh punishments as a stand alone solution...they should be used in conjunction with the other options.

As a side note, this month's Car and Driver has an interesting article on the horsepower war between Chrysler, Ford and GM. The next generation Corvette, the GT40 and the Viper are expected to peak abover 450 HP...they are dubbed as "street-legal" race cars from the factory. I'm excited by this news, but you can bet you'll see a lot more cars wrapped around telephone poles in the next 5 years on your way home from the office .

 

This is also my point. As one grows older, one becomes more conservative in their driving no matter what the "skill" level.

lucifer's point is well taken, a combination of all the above will HELP reduce the problem but will not completly remove it. Maturity IS the point and that cannot be taught but you can put in place initiatives that make is easier to be a lot less tolarant of violations.

Imagine theat the licensing was made more difficult, advanced driving classes, race facilities etc. if you HAD those in place it would provide no "excuse" to those violating the law.

 

I'm all for the race track. Trying to get out to mission on time has been the biggest reason why I've never met up with you guys out there. Hell, I haven't even seen what the track looks like except when I flew over it during my flying lessons.
I also agree that modded cars are not the issue. That civic that killed the cop in richmond was bone stock. Yet it said Si, or whatever, and it has two doors. So its called a sports car. What I'm trying to say is that, you can take ANY car and make it into a weapon. My sisters Jetta TDI can turn into a weapon with its measly 90 HP if I drive it a certain way. The cars are not to blame or are the modifications that we do to it.
Anyone here that has spent their own money fixing their cars up knows how hard it is to maintain our hobbies. I know that when I was a kid (16-19) I did think I was invincible in my moms 4 door V8 Cutlass. And I tried to prove by mashing the accelerator everychance I got. Now I'm older, some say "wiser" and not only do I get no Speeding tickets"KNock on WOOD" or get in any my fault accidents I also take care of my car, myself and others on the road.
We've all had the temptation to hit the pedal every so often to feel that power as we leave a light or as we pass a mustang on the freeway, but most of us are smart enough to look around , in the rearview and in front of us to see if its safe. (And of course that there's no cops around)
I also think that it is becoming increasingly "cool" to go to the track and get an official timeslip that we can use as bragging rights. Plus you don't have to worry about the cops taking away your liscense and/ or car. For those of us that are older/wiser should be teaching the younger or less experience people around that the track is a safe alternative just like a shooting range is.
We should also see if maybe there is something we can do to start a racetrack closer to here ie(Langley, Port Kells) Hell I'd put it on my farm if the neighbours didn't complain so much about my car. We've all talked about it and we all heard people talking about it, but I haven't seen anything done about it. I'm willing to help as much as I can to present this alternative to the public, is anyone else? maybe we canWe've all come up with some great alternatives and ideas. Maybe we should put them to use, like the response to the article was.

Anyways, just my two cents worth.

 

Has anyone here contacted the club Executive of the Mission track? They may have been working on this problem already??

 

I think contacting them may be a good idea. I for one would love to see at least one more day for drag racing. It would be great to see events like import vs. domestic shootouts, ford vs. GM, club shootouts, etc.