[Michigan] IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
12-23-2010, 10:21 AM
#1
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IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
I have a 1997 SS with 2otl exhaust and looking at headers as my first upgrade…I would like to keep the cats along with the 2otl exhaust…I’m thinking long tubes for the best hp gain now and possibly I may upgrade the cam at a later date…
Also, do you install headers and at what price….
Thanks
Larry
Also, do you install headers and at what price….
Thanks
Larry
12-23-2010, 08:24 PM
#2
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Location: waterford, MI - USA
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
yeah I can install anything you want. lol. and I never recomend shorty headers to anyone. just not worth the cost/hassle if you ask me. long tubes FTW.
why do you want to keep the cats? just curious.
you said "as your first mod" so Im goin to assume your car is all stock, save for the slp options? which are? t56 or auto? what gear ratio are you working with?
send me a pm with all the info about your car (mods? options, mileage, had any work/repairs done lately? need any repairs done? )
Im working at matick chevrolet in redford (telegraph and I96). I havent done "side work" in a few years, and dont exactly know when I'll get time to get back to doin that at home. but, I have a "performance" labor rate I get for my customers. between $65-75 pr/hour (instead of the normal $94? we normally charge.) at my managers discretion. depends on how much work were doin. gathering prices for a 383 build for over the winter for a customer. and got a few performance jobs lined up for spring time already.
have we met before Larry or have you just seen me on here or what?
chris
why do you want to keep the cats? just curious.
you said "as your first mod" so Im goin to assume your car is all stock, save for the slp options? which are? t56 or auto? what gear ratio are you working with?
send me a pm with all the info about your car (mods? options, mileage, had any work/repairs done lately? need any repairs done? )
Im working at matick chevrolet in redford (telegraph and I96). I havent done "side work" in a few years, and dont exactly know when I'll get time to get back to doin that at home. but, I have a "performance" labor rate I get for my customers. between $65-75 pr/hour (instead of the normal $94? we normally charge.) at my managers discretion. depends on how much work were doin. gathering prices for a 383 build for over the winter for a customer. and got a few performance jobs lined up for spring time already.
have we met before Larry or have you just seen me on here or what?
chris
12-24-2010, 06:11 AM
#3
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
First of all Chris I just read a few of your post here and you sound like the right person to work on my car…
My car is 1997 SS with 29K, Auto, 2otl exhaust (less cone of silence); 160 thermostats…No sure what the standard gear is for Auto’s…
My goal for the car is 350-400hp over a long period of time…As close as possible sounding wise to the old 70’s cars…No problem deleting the cats to meet this goal.
When I first bought the car in 2002, I was thinking the car was going to be a collectable so I was thinking keep it stock and now I’m thinking screw that, enjoy the car…Plus 300HP isn’t jack **** anymore…
The car has been basically problem free although it’s now having a slight pulsation at low idle…I cleaned the mass airflow senor and the throttle body with no improvement (both didn’t look dirty at all)…No check engine light at this point…
My car is 1997 SS with 29K, Auto, 2otl exhaust (less cone of silence); 160 thermostats…No sure what the standard gear is for Auto’s…
My goal for the car is 350-400hp over a long period of time…As close as possible sounding wise to the old 70’s cars…No problem deleting the cats to meet this goal.
When I first bought the car in 2002, I was thinking the car was going to be a collectable so I was thinking keep it stock and now I’m thinking screw that, enjoy the car…Plus 300HP isn’t jack **** anymore…
The car has been basically problem free although it’s now having a slight pulsation at low idle…I cleaned the mass airflow senor and the throttle body with no improvement (both didn’t look dirty at all)…No check engine light at this point…
12-28-2010, 10:42 AM
#4
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
sorry for the delay bud, were actually very busy here at work.
looking at 6 hours meaning $450 for labor. if we do more work, I can possibly get that price down a little also. that price is assuming no other work at the same time.
that being said, you could very well have an opti spark goin out if you are getting a misfire. font forget your plug wires are 13 years old too, despite only 29K miles, they dry up and deteriorate. the spark plugs will be out with the headers off, so may or maynot want to swap those for new/different ones. the factory plugs are usually good for 80K miles atleast.
Id also recomend swapping motor mounts with the poly eurothane motor mounts to avoid any frame/header contact. as well as trans mount/torque arm bushing swap. you'll love the performance feel you get from the eurothane parts. it really does tighten up the drivetrain. making the car feel more solid too.
I recomend the taylor over the valve cover wire kits. labor on replacing factory wires (even with the headers off) is substantial. the otvc kits make the wires extremely accesible and keep them away from the heat of the headers.
anyways, long story short, call me if you have any questions on any/all of this.
chris
248-877-7033
looking at 6 hours meaning $450 for labor. if we do more work, I can possibly get that price down a little also. that price is assuming no other work at the same time.
that being said, you could very well have an opti spark goin out if you are getting a misfire. font forget your plug wires are 13 years old too, despite only 29K miles, they dry up and deteriorate. the spark plugs will be out with the headers off, so may or maynot want to swap those for new/different ones. the factory plugs are usually good for 80K miles atleast.
Id also recomend swapping motor mounts with the poly eurothane motor mounts to avoid any frame/header contact. as well as trans mount/torque arm bushing swap. you'll love the performance feel you get from the eurothane parts. it really does tighten up the drivetrain. making the car feel more solid too.
I recomend the taylor over the valve cover wire kits. labor on replacing factory wires (even with the headers off) is substantial. the otvc kits make the wires extremely accesible and keep them away from the heat of the headers.
anyways, long story short, call me if you have any questions on any/all of this.
chris
248-877-7033
12-28-2010, 10:45 AM
#5
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
oh yeah, forget about the cats then. if you get a dyno tune, the car will be running at the proper air fuel ratio, and it wont contribute that much to pollution, esp. when you consider how few miles you drive the car, right???
and, contact "quicksilver". his name is chris, he lives out near us (waterford), and he has an exh. system that I think you'll LOVE. yes its an LS1 car, but the exh . will be very similar if you were to copy his exh. system. and in spring, Im sure he'll give you a ride in it to really check out the sound of the exh..
and, contact "quicksilver". his name is chris, he lives out near us (waterford), and he has an exh. system that I think you'll LOVE. yes its an LS1 car, but the exh . will be very similar if you were to copy his exh. system. and in spring, Im sure he'll give you a ride in it to really check out the sound of the exh..
12-28-2010, 04:33 PM
#6
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
oh yeah, forget about the cats then. if you get a dyno tune, the car will be running at the proper air fuel ratio, and it wont contribute that much to pollution, esp. when you consider how few miles you drive the car, right???
and, contact "quicksilver". his name is chris, he lives out near us (waterford), and he has an exh. system that I think you'll LOVE. yes its an LS1 car, but the exh . will be very similar if you were to copy his exh. system. and in spring, Im sure he'll give you a ride in it to really check out the sound of the exh..
and, contact "quicksilver". his name is chris, he lives out near us (waterford), and he has an exh. system that I think you'll LOVE. yes its an LS1 car, but the exh . will be very similar if you were to copy his exh. system. and in spring, Im sure he'll give you a ride in it to really check out the sound of the exh..
Hey Chris,
Why Chris's (Quicksilver's) exhaust and not mine, LOL. Come on, everyone knows I have the best sounding exhaust at WOT. Hell, can you even hear any other cars exhaust when it's by mine at WOT?
Larry, you can't go wrong with Chris working on your car. Chris did everything on my car except for the tune. The car mad 405 RWHP on a Mustang dyno with a 4,000+ LOOOOOSSSSE torque converter that was unlocked when doing the dyno pulls. That would be in the area of 450RWHP on a DynoJet.
Chris does great work and you know you can trust what is being done is right, no short cuts. He has done all the work on this car and my last car and I couldn't be happier with his work.
Oh yea, to be honest, Chris's (Quicksilver's) exhaust is bad *** and that is what I would look at if I was you. If you like making the people in your area mad at you, mine is top notch. I have never heard a car with a name brand exhaust as loud as mine at WOT as mine. I do like it when someone doesn't know what is going to happen and you put your foot into it.
Here are a couple clips of my car with Chris's handy work.
Dyno Pull:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI4NHJgNOP8
Idle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgEd-5fhLWo
Good Luck W/Your Car!!!
Bill
Last edited by Bill'sWS6; 12-29-2010 at 01:14 PM.
12-29-2010, 01:31 PM
#7
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
Larry,
One other thing I would suggest and Chris can chime in on this. Before getting the long tubes and getting minimal gains I would look at getting a stall converter. It is WAY more bang for the buck than long tubes. If you are lucky you are looking at picking up .01 in the 1/4 with a pair of long tubes. Get yourself a 3,400-3,600 (I would go with a tighter 3,600) stall converter and you can pick up as much as a .5 in the 1/4. It will be much more fun to drive and all around a better deal.
That is the best mod you can do on an A4 car.
Get the long tubes when you do a cam or heads. It will help the car breathe much better and benefit the car much better when you pair long tubes with a cam and heads, or just cam or just heads.
In addition don't forget to look on the used parts market here or on LS1tech.com. You can find great setups for pretty cheap compared to retail. My last car had a 224/224 580ish/580ish cam and the car went 11.6. I did have a set of heads and other stuff but you don't need to go to big to make good power.
Chris, your thoughts?
Good Luck!!!
One other thing I would suggest and Chris can chime in on this. Before getting the long tubes and getting minimal gains I would look at getting a stall converter. It is WAY more bang for the buck than long tubes. If you are lucky you are looking at picking up .01 in the 1/4 with a pair of long tubes. Get yourself a 3,400-3,600 (I would go with a tighter 3,600) stall converter and you can pick up as much as a .5 in the 1/4. It will be much more fun to drive and all around a better deal.
That is the best mod you can do on an A4 car.
Get the long tubes when you do a cam or heads. It will help the car breathe much better and benefit the car much better when you pair long tubes with a cam and heads, or just cam or just heads.
In addition don't forget to look on the used parts market here or on LS1tech.com. You can find great setups for pretty cheap compared to retail. My last car had a 224/224 580ish/580ish cam and the car went 11.6. I did have a set of heads and other stuff but you don't need to go to big to make good power.
Chris, your thoughts?
Good Luck!!!
12-29-2010, 04:51 PM
#8
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
you stole my thunder Bill!!!! haha. yeah thats what I was goin to tell ya when you call/if you called. and thats why I asked way back when if the car was auto or stick, and what gears. actually, Id do stall, then rear end gears (3:73 for auto is perfect gear IMHO for a car that doesnt see a ton of highway use.). mine had 383, 3800 stall, 3:73 and still knocked down 15-16mpg freeway/street mix. and I drove my car a few thousand miles in a summer.
the exh mods DO create some good power, but w/o any other mods, bills right that it wont touch the bene's of the stall/rear end ratio. ofcourse, you always get rewarded with the knarly sound of longtubes, dual exh everytime you start the car. but Id bet LT and full exh system swap would be more like .1-.2 w/o any other mods.
the exh mods DO create some good power, but w/o any other mods, bills right that it wont touch the bene's of the stall/rear end ratio. ofcourse, you always get rewarded with the knarly sound of longtubes, dual exh everytime you start the car. but Id bet LT and full exh system swap would be more like .1-.2 w/o any other mods.
12-29-2010, 07:17 PM
#9
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
Bill first of all, one hell of a ride you have, It absolutely sounds amazing…
My 2otl exhaust is way to quite on my car and I’m trying to get the car to sound like a real V8 LOL… So I figured start with headers first then move to the cam / heads…
I guess I didn’t consider a stall converter for the first upgrade…Will the stall be too much for the stock rear ends on these cars? Also, what would be the complete cost including installation for the stall converter / 3:73 gear?
My 2otl exhaust is way to quite on my car and I’m trying to get the car to sound like a real V8 LOL… So I figured start with headers first then move to the cam / heads…
I guess I didn’t consider a stall converter for the first upgrade…Will the stall be too much for the stock rear ends on these cars? Also, what would be the complete cost including installation for the stall converter / 3:73 gear?
12-30-2010, 09:47 AM
#10
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
yes, long tubes w/offroad ypipe will make the car louder and sound meaner ofcourse. a cam will also notably increase the volume as well as change the cars personality entirely.
would you be doin the headers and stall together? I can save you some labor if I do them at the same time. let me know that and I'll get your new quote.
as for the rear gears, I dont do those. sorry but your on your own. lol. I can however get a good guy price and see what our trans guy can do it for (he does all our gears/axle work here). if youve ever searched on here you would see that Scott Koresky is highly recomended for rear gear swaps. but I no longer have his #. his company is "drive train solutions".
through your whole build, you gotta be honest with yourself though, and consider the whole package. if your goin to build in steps, and you dont want to have to buy things two times, you'll at some stages not have the "ideal" setup. for instance, you want to ultimatly have 450HP, that will require a somewhat aggressive cam, and ported/aftermarket heads to make. w/o a cam, you'd be best suited to say a 3000rpm stall conv., but with the 450HP goal, I'll always recomend a 3800rpm stall for retaining good street mannors, and still get all the 60ft times for racing. also, you mentioned the rear gears strength. yes they are pretty weak. with 450HP, if you can afford the jump, Id recomend swapping to a ford 9", or the dana S60. and not have to worry about breaking ring gears. thats where you gotta decide how long will it be before you DO step up and get the heads/cam? next year? 5 years? that'll help you figure out how to make those decisions listed above.
would you be doin the headers and stall together? I can save you some labor if I do them at the same time. let me know that and I'll get your new quote.
as for the rear gears, I dont do those. sorry but your on your own. lol. I can however get a good guy price and see what our trans guy can do it for (he does all our gears/axle work here). if youve ever searched on here you would see that Scott Koresky is highly recomended for rear gear swaps. but I no longer have his #. his company is "drive train solutions".
through your whole build, you gotta be honest with yourself though, and consider the whole package. if your goin to build in steps, and you dont want to have to buy things two times, you'll at some stages not have the "ideal" setup. for instance, you want to ultimatly have 450HP, that will require a somewhat aggressive cam, and ported/aftermarket heads to make. w/o a cam, you'd be best suited to say a 3000rpm stall conv., but with the 450HP goal, I'll always recomend a 3800rpm stall for retaining good street mannors, and still get all the 60ft times for racing. also, you mentioned the rear gears strength. yes they are pretty weak. with 450HP, if you can afford the jump, Id recomend swapping to a ford 9", or the dana S60. and not have to worry about breaking ring gears. thats where you gotta decide how long will it be before you DO step up and get the heads/cam? next year? 5 years? that'll help you figure out how to make those decisions listed above.
12-30-2010, 01:00 PM
#11
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
Chris, I'm looking for 375hp out of my lt1, not 450hp...
Here's what I'm thinking...
1) Long tube headers and detele the cats and keep my 2otl exhust.
2) A mild cam possibly LT4 hotcam
3) Port the heads
That should get me close to 375hp shouldn't it?
Here's what I'm thinking...
1) Long tube headers and detele the cats and keep my 2otl exhust.
2) A mild cam possibly LT4 hotcam
3) Port the heads
That should get me close to 375hp shouldn't it?
12-30-2010, 08:59 PM
#12
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
yep. depending on what heads/who ports them, you should be more like 400. 
yeah, stick with 3000 stall conv.. and dont forget the add on trans cooler to go with the stall conv.. I'll get you a price tomorrow. if you got 3:23 gears, that would actually sufffice. but, if you do have the 3:08, Id either look for a complete 3:42 axle take out from a stick car, or get the 3:73's installed in your axle.
another step you could add in here is upgrade the rockers to 1.6 rollers. the new comp. cams magnums (ultra magnums??? forgot) are the ticket.
yeah, stick with 3000 stall conv.. and dont forget the add on trans cooler to go with the stall conv.. I'll get you a price tomorrow. if you got 3:23 gears, that would actually sufffice. but, if you do have the 3:08, Id either look for a complete 3:42 axle take out from a stick car, or get the 3:73's installed in your axle. another step you could add in here is upgrade the rockers to 1.6 rollers. the new comp. cams magnums (ultra magnums??? forgot) are the ticket.
12-31-2010, 06:57 AM
#13
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
if your car is a legit 30th its highly collectible 
and ive met chris a couple times and hes a stand up guy. if i didnt have the capability to do my own work id probably take my car to him. but cam it (i suggest a CC503 for no-mild porting) get a converter, a set of jet hott long tubes (best plug clearance i have seen) put some 3.73 gears out back with a girdle and go to the track and click off some 12s...
and ive met chris a couple times and hes a stand up guy. if i didnt have the capability to do my own work id probably take my car to him. but cam it (i suggest a CC503 for no-mild porting) get a converter, a set of jet hott long tubes (best plug clearance i have seen) put some 3.73 gears out back with a girdle and go to the track and click off some 12s...
12-31-2010, 09:15 AM
#14
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
The car is a legit 30th anniversary model but not sure how highly collectable it is or will be…To me the 100 LT4’s that year are the ones to own that have the high collectability…
I do wonder though if my car does become a collectable in 20 years would any mods (headers, cam, gear, ported heads and stall converter) decrease the value of the car and by how much? I plan on keeping all the parts I do remove…
Just a note, I bought the car w/ 6k miles from an estate sale of a 79 year old grandpa from Lakeland Florida 8 years ago today back in 2002 New Years Eve…
The grandpa I bought the car from stop at the Chevy dealer and bought the Camaro SS on the way home from losing his pilot’s license in 1997…His grandson who I bought the car from said grandma was supper pissed off the day he brought the car home, a pretty cool story…
I do wonder though if my car does become a collectable in 20 years would any mods (headers, cam, gear, ported heads and stall converter) decrease the value of the car and by how much? I plan on keeping all the parts I do remove…
Just a note, I bought the car w/ 6k miles from an estate sale of a 79 year old grandpa from Lakeland Florida 8 years ago today back in 2002 New Years Eve…
The grandpa I bought the car from stop at the Chevy dealer and bought the Camaro SS on the way home from losing his pilot’s license in 1997…His grandson who I bought the car from said grandma was supper pissed off the day he brought the car home, a pretty cool story…
12-31-2010, 05:20 PM
#15
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Re: IrocSS85 - Looking at headers
that IS a cool story. he must have lost some of his eyesight Id guess to cause them to take his pilots license.
consider this scenario. a 1973 z28 , with super low miles, a solid lift 3/4 race cam, a pair of dual quads, some 4:33 gears, some cool *** crager mags, and whatever else they used to do to hop up cars in the late 70's. if you found it in a barn like that, I'd be pretty damn excited myself.
Id never think anyone would say "Id buy it if it still had the orig. exh mann.s and catback system, but not like this" right??? thats my .02 anyways.
my dad had exactly the same scenario with his car. 2002 mecham Trans am that to this day has around 8K miles on it. it now makes 420 HP to the tires on a mustang dyno. and is a BLAST to drive once in a while when he does drive it that is.
consider this scenario. a 1973 z28 , with super low miles, a solid lift 3/4 race cam, a pair of dual quads, some 4:33 gears, some cool *** crager mags, and whatever else they used to do to hop up cars in the late 70's. if you found it in a barn like that, I'd be pretty damn excited myself.
Id never think anyone would say "Id buy it if it still had the orig. exh mann.s and catback system, but not like this" right??? thats my .02 anyways.
my dad had exactly the same scenario with his car. 2002 mecham Trans am that to this day has around 8K miles on it. it now makes 420 HP to the tires on a mustang dyno. and is a BLAST to drive once in a while when he does drive it that is.
