I have been talking to several vendors about head porting... Advanced Inductions, Lloyd Elliot, Combination Motorsports... How do you know who's port design is best? I mean, which one really is the most bang for the buck? A.I. claims to get her done with a 190cc intake runner, while Lloyd says his LE2 package is 205cc intake port. So, would logic dictate that the smaller port moving the same air would yield better throttle response and better overall performance? Or should I go with Lloyds LE2 wich includes the ferrea valves and beehive springs at a cheaper price then A.I's job that doesn't include either?
A.I. has 100% cnc'ed ports and bowl for excellent consistancy, but I don't know if llyod does his on the cnc too. I forgot to ask him that... anyone know?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I don't want to go with the cheapest price, I want to go with the best quality for the buck!
Thanks
~Cody

 

Excellent REsult's have been yielded by both.. And i hvae'nt heard of any unhappy customer's w/ either.. So.. the choice is completely upto you.. You need to speak to whomever you go w/ about your plan's for the car and what you are going to use it for.. Then they can tailor the setup to you...

 

yeah, I have been talking extensively to both, and they have been really helpful. But, I was just wondering what other people, much like yourself, thought. Maybe someone had better overall designs, I don't know. I am having trouble deciding, so I thought I would see what others thought. If lloyd does his heads on a cnc too, then I might go with him as he is a lot cheaper, but then again, cheaper is not always better....
~Cody

 

Heads were done for years without CNC and the old cars ran pretty damn good.
Quit worrying about port volume and get a set of heads that flow what your combo needs. Port volume ain't gonna kill your engine at your HP level unless ya are putting a 430CFM@.600 on a 283 and it will still work on a 283,ya might have to shift at 9000--- But
Just get the flow to make the HP ya want=300CFM will make 616FWHP with everything else right.

 

yeah, but why not take advantage of today's technology? If porting by hand, the first couple of runners will be excellent. By the end, the porter is probably getting worn out, and tired of it, so they might not be as good. Granted the old porters may have done a good job, but with todays computers a way better job could possibly be done, if the right numbers and a good port design are entered into the computer. If you put in junk programming, junk will come out!
I would rather take advantage of the cnc's ability to reproduce runners very accurately across the head!
just my thoughts...
~Cody

 

My porter does a lot of my work by hand.He has CNC equipment but it has to have a program. They won't go to the time and expense to make a one off program.Soooo ya get a generic program. My porter has the generic programs but if ya want more ya pay for the hand porting. Same with any of them.
Porters that ARE porters and not just machine operators buying someone elses (programs) ideas on ports (programs), can port heads in their sleep and get no more tired than I do working on cranes.They are used to it.Ya don't have to have CNC to be good. It's a lot easier with CNC if ya made your own programs but it's not necessary to have CNC or the expensive machinery to do it.

 

true that!^ But, most people make their own program and copywrite it! That is what A.I. did. All I am trying to do is bounce my ideas off of other people, to see if I am in left field or if some people generally agree with me. That is why I appreciate your point of view too! :-) It just seems to me that a cnc job would be way more consistent.
For instance, how does a porter know that each cylinder will flow the same after he is done? After all, balance is what makes or breaks a motor!
~Cody

 

HE flows them a bunch during the stages of the porting or before the final stage of cutting. Ya also have patterns to shape the port with at different depths.
There is a guy down here that ports heads and has an eye ya wouldn't believe. He relieved a block (intake valve) for me,did it freehand and ya couldn't tell it from an end mill job. He did 8 cyls and they were all the same.
This is how porters do there work and don't need expensive machines==== TALENT.

What I am trying to say is just because ya got a CNC machine doesent make ya a better porter,just a faster one.

 

interesting! I will definately consider what you have just shared with me in regards to picking a head porter!
~Cody

 

As many heads as Lloyd does I would not worry about him getting tired, and as noted he has test equipment and experiance as his guides as he works. That said you are right hand work will not be as consistent as CNC and as 1racerdude said a CNC is only as good as it's programming I would just add SETUP as well. I will post results for one of these choices come spring

 

haha, GREAT! do post! But, until then, I need to figure out what to do...
~Cody

 

Cody,

How do you know that your valve events are all going to be the same cylinder to cylinder or the timing for that matter....

Most head porters are more accurate cylinder to cylider on a port than the block is keeping your valve timing right cylinder to cylinder.

Bret

 

wow, I guess I never thought of that! See, I love this board! I like being able to bouce ideas off other people, and see what their responses are...
thanks
~Cody

 

You can correct all the problems on a motor, most people dont have the coin for it.

Bret

 

Lloyd does great work and honestly will give you the biggest bank for you buck if thats what you are after. That combined with awesome customer service is what defines him and sets him appart from the competition... and you cant forget Bret does help by topping the LE packages off with a custom cam. But then there is AI. I could be mistaken but am pretty sure they have been in the business longer and have more capital invested... takes many ported heads to pay off a CNC machine. They stand behind their product, as you might expect from all porters, but their motors turn some interesting numbers with the track times to back them up. Lloyd turns out some great stuff too but its just my opinion(for what its worth to you) that AI does it with more precision. And thats what you pay extra for.