I was wondering where to go and what to buy in regards to a good set of heads, intake and cam for about 420 RWHP 396? I'll want to "port match" the intake to the heads and cam, right? People seem to be in favor of using the LT4 intake and porting it on this board.

I'm going to talk to my engine builder soon and I want to compile a good list of suggestions. He built me a good budget 383 and now I want him to build a good LT1 396, but he's no expert on them. So, though he's a great engine builder, I want to help him out as much as I can. If all he has to do is assemble the parts I give him, that would be cool.

The car will be a daily driver.

It looks like the guys at http://www.advancedinduction.com/ are getting some fanfare on here.

 

But, what I'm looking for is a head and cam package. This "port matching" sounds cool too, but I don't know much about it (or anything eles, for that matter).

 

AI does great work. Getting 425rwhp out of a 396 wont be a problem. Give them a call on Monday or send them an email with your goals. They can set up/port a set of LT4s, or maybe AFR heads if you dont mind a wait/price increase.

It will be easier to just call/email them and let them talk to you. You could probably even get 425 out of LT1 heads, but you would be wasting all of the extra cubic inches by not going with a big head.

As for port matching are you refering to the intake or the basic port and you assemble the parts? I would just leave that to them.

 

I think port matchnig has to do with the intake and cam. I wish Ai had a phone number on their site.

 

Go to Ai. They can port your stock heads or offer you ported aftermarket heads. They can also get you a custom cam to match your heads.

 

Get the LE2 heads from Llyod. 1300 you also get titanium retainers and what ever spring you need. All set up and ready to go. Stock lt1 castings with fully ported and polished will still be holding you back. On a budget, then definately give them to Llyod. Other wise afr 220's will certainly help you get the full potential out of your engine. At the very least call Llyod. He is the nicest and most resourceful person when it comes to head work. His number is 972-617-5671 or email is nighttrain66@msn.com Call him, he won't talk you into stuff you don't need

 

Below is a basic run down on the head and cam packages. The best package will depend on HP goals, budget, rear gears, stall size, future plans, emissions, driving style, etc., etc, A phone call would be best to make sure that we can talk through these things and get a package that will work like you are wanting it to and also make sure that you have the complimenting parts to make each set up work.

I offer cam and head packager from $1100 to $1700 depending on driving style, emissions, RPM range, budget, etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LE1 cam pulls from 2000 to 6200 RPM and should make 380-390 RWHP with matching heads, 30 lb injectors, 52 TB, 1 3/4 LTs, No cats, good tuning, etc. The heads are ported using stock valves, performance valve job, back cut valves, CM 612 springs, retainers and locks, milling, cleaning and assembly. These heads flow about 255/180 with a 195 cc intake port and stock LT1's flow about 215/150 with a 170 cc intake port.

Heads and cam are $1100 (plus shipping). This has the RPM range of the Hot Cam, CC 305, XE 224/230, etc. but makes more HP and TQ over these cams through out the entire RPM range. This will work with any gear and converter but the track times will be better with a stall and some gear.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LE2 cam pulls from 2200 to 6500 RPM and should make 400-420 RWHP with matching heads, 30-36 lb injectors, 52-58 mm TB, 1 3/4 LT's, no cats, GOOD tuning, etc. The heads are ported and machined for larger Ferrea 2.00/1.56 valves, Comp 987 dbl springs, TITANIUM 10 degree retainers, locks, locators, milling, cleaning and assembly. These will flow about 270/190 with a 205 cc intake port.

Heads and cam are $1600 (plus shipping) and will need GOOD tuning. This has the RPM range of the CC 306 cam but will make more HP and TQ at peak and across the board. The REAL difference will be the LE2 cam will make TQ in the 2500 RPM range and the cc 306 doesn't start until way past this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LE3 cam pulls from 2600 to 6800 RPM in a 350 (2300 to 6500 RPM in a 383) and should make 410 to 430 RWHP with matching heads, 36-42 lb injectors, 58 TB or mono blade, GOOD tuning, etc, etc, etc. These are the same heads from above but with Comp 977 springs instead of the 987's. These are stronger and will also need Comp R lifters to handle the spring pressure.

Heads and cam are $1700 (plus shipping) and will need GOOD tuning. This cam is similar to the GM 847 cam but makes about 10 more HP at peak and starts making HP sooner. Makes more HP and TQ across the board. Needs gear and converter to work well in a 350. Pretty much a racing cam for the 350 or a good street cam that will act like the LE2 in a 383.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone has a different opinion about what is streetable and what a safe RPM limit is for their engine.

If you are looking for just cylinder heads and no cam, the heads are priced at . . . . .

$750 for the LE1 heads only
$1250 for the LE2 heads only
$1300 for the LE3 heads only

Give me a call and I can help you pick a combo that you will be happy with.

Lloyd Elliott------------------------972-617-5671------------------------Red Oak Tx 75154
NightTrain66@msn.com

 

Thanks! I didn't know who you were until I got all the way to your sig. You are one of the two people I was hoping to hear from, but I couldn't remember your name. I'll give you a call either Monday or Thursday.

 

If you are dumping that much money into a 396 don't skimp on the heads that is where the power is at. Call Ai and get some heavily ported aftermarket heads coming your way.

 

Did you ever dyno your ride?

 

Nope not after my fail fuel pump problem. I probably will over this winter break as my buddy who can dyno tune will be back in town.

 

I am just wondering because you say dont skimp on the heads and that he should call AI, well who says calling Lloyd is skimping? Hard to tell if you got great stuff from AI without dynoing or track times isnt it? I am sure you did, but I am making a point. I had a slightly milder version of your cam (230/236 114LSA) and with a mailorder tune I made 383rwhp/353rwtq. No doubt a dyno tune would have put me 390+rwhp. This was with heads lloyd ported 1.5-2 years ago. They only flowed 271/187 @ .550". For $400 in porting (thats right, he charged $400 for porting when i bought them a while ago) milling, cutting for seats and shipping both ways my total was just under $700. Does that mean i got junk? Not by my preliminary dyno numbers. How is this for a flat torque curve?

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...58_45_full.jpg

Now I am not trying to call you or anything, it would be nice though if the people that claim to have the best heads showed some of their own numbers as well.

 

Thats true i don't have numbers yet but i've done my research and i might send some stockers to Lloyd but i wouldn't send him my Aftermarket ones. If i'm gonna go all out i'm gonna go with the best. Ai was hitting 400rwhp on stock short block with shortie headers way before Lloyd ever even thought about putting down those numbers. I believe i also remember reading on this board that Ai has some 500rwhp combos in the works for stock short blocks. I've also seen that Phil thought about offering some killer all out race port heads to see if there was any interest. That kind of showed me that Ai wasn't even putting out his best stuff. I've also seen instances where people went with Lloyd because that is what they could afford but they said they would of gone Ai in a heartbeat if they had the cash. My buddy is in that boat. I went with Ai because i wanted the best stuff, and the service was remarkable. Ai's quality was much much better than the Lloyd stuff i've seen in my opinion. I talked to Lloyd about his products to before i made my decision. When i first talked to Phil i asked him if could just reuse my stock valves and size to save money, I liked that Phil at Ai said they don't put **** together. He said something about the keeper grooves not being good enough for him and he won't reuse stock valves. They don't skimp on parts and they will only do it the right way or they will turn you down for business. That really helped sell me on Ai. Lloyd would do stock valves no problem. That just showed me that Ai does it right or they don't do it at all. Everyone has their opinion. I might use Lloyd for stock stuff but never for top dollar aftermarket heads.

 

Perhaps its because AI has been offering heads longer Lloyd? I believe AI was around when already when lloyd started getting into this stuff.

You want see any 500rwhp N/A stock bottom #'s from an LTx engine for awhile (there may be a few that are close, but they arent mainstream). If LSx engines arent doing it, then what makes you think LTx engines can? Its easier said then done.

This is true. I was gonna try AI just because I wanted to see what the hype was. After qetting a quote that came in $1200 higher than Lloyd I realized that the ~10hp difference between LE and AI wont make a difference when I am feeding 15psi thru my motor. However, that 1200 can go toward other parts to help finish my project.

Really? How did you get to compare?

You mean you dont skimp on parts right, because AI doesnt give valvetrain away for free. Lloyd has always told me which hardware he recommends and why. In fact, I have a set of springs that I shipped to Lloyd when he did my heads and he suggest a stronger set. He said its up to me, but he'd go with a different set.


It stinks that he'd actually do what the customer wants. Dont you think if lloyd thought the performance would be compromised then he would say "hey thats a bad idea"? Dont forget, his name is on the heads.

Thats too bad because he just did my AFR 210's and he murdered AFR's flow numbers. In fact, his bench flows ~10cfm less than TEA's bench, so Lloyd's #'s are conservative.

 

As i've said i have a set of buddies Lloyd heads in my garage and the Ai quality is leaps and bounds a head of Lloyds. Phil said he wouldn't use stock valves because he felt they were a safety issue. To me it means more that he would rather turn down the work than do a sh!tty job. That means he cares more about his product and name than the other guy. Also people mention Ai stuff costs more but they will admit that you probably get more hp out of the stuff even if they say its only a few. To me if i'm building a 396 stroker and dumping a **** load of $$$ i'm not gonna skimp on the heads because i'm trying to get every last hp out of the car. If you do some searching you will find some good info backing up that Phil is the man. Right now i'm looking at a post where phil got 300+ cfm's out of stock LT1 heads.