I have a LE2.2 cam I want to install.
23x/23x .601/.601 (1.6)
8501-BSBC Patriot gold extreme springs I just bought.
Otherwise stock heads.

I am wondering if I keep the RPMs down at 6k can I run stock rockers? (short term)
If I need some I want to get the Scorpion 1.6 5/16" SA rockers.
What is the likely hood of needing new pushrods?
If I am to need pushrods I really don't see the point of going SA and then I'd go NSA. and get guideplates. But then If I do that I might as well upgrade to 7/16s studs instead.

Also any clearance issues I should be concerned with?

I want to get by as cheap as possible, but I don't want to blow the motor just yet.

What can I do?
What would you do?

Also, the motor was swapped out 3 years ago just prior to me buying it. I believe they put on a timing chain then, which would put it at less than 10k miles. How can I tell if it needs to be replaced?

Lot o questions. I know. I'm new.

 

IMO, if you can't do it right the first time, save the $$$ until you can afford the quality parts. RPMs aren't the only thing that can punish stock rocker arms. The faster ramp rates of the cam also are a cause for concern.

I would just do it once with hardened pushrods, 7/16" studs, Trick Flow guideplates, and Pro Magnum full roller rockers.

 

Well if you want to do it right the first time, shouldn't you get shaft mounts?

There is no "right way." It's application dependent.

I do not want to get nsa rockers on my stock heads. I want SA. When I get ported heads I will go with 7/16 nsa and all that.

I want to save money for things that are needed NOW, I see so much info perpetuated with no facts to back it up. I could easily run regular magnums and be perfectly fine. But like I said if I have to get pushrods then it's pointless.

I understand RPMs kill stock rockers, but stock eliminator cars run them to 7k rpms.

These same cars have steep ramps on their stock lift cams/high duration cams.

I just want some factual information.

 

Okay, do what you want then. Because I know nothing about it and have no experience. Why even ask for opinions/advice?

 

I Don't mean to come off that way.

I just want factual information. Everytime somebody asks something about valvetrain it's the same info perpetuated. Promags have not been out forever. Before promags they used lesser rockers. They didn't lower their rev limiter and cam lobes because promags weren't out yet.

Lt1s have gotten around just fine with sa rockers and non promags. They've also done it without guideplates and 7/16" studs

I'm just looking for a decent mid rpm range rocker arm that can handle what I'm needing it for. I've heard nothing but good from scorpion I've heard sa rockers "won't handle rpms", but I've seen the opposite on race motors.

Its so hard to get an answer that isn't cookie cutter anymore. Not every engine has to be built the same way. I want this cam only motor to suffice until I build a low CR forged motor for boost. I'm not looking for an all out motor. I don't need all out parts.

Again, I'm not meaning to sound dickish, but I already know that same combo. I don't want it.

 

LE told me to get 3/8 comp cams studs for his 226/230 .565/.565 111 LSA. I could go 7/16 but with a stock block it's more than likely overkill. However with the lift on that cam I don't even think at that lift they would survive. Maybe rpm wise but not lift. I remember seeing an GMHTP article way back on how they make stock rockers survive stock eliminators. Don't remember how they did it.

 

Yeah, all I'm REALLY worried about is the lift. I know I don't want to spin it very high as it'll only compound the issue.

That's one thing I wondered, if anybody out there has run stock rockers at that high of a lift with only 6k rpms.

 

A bit of info from Gizmo about that...
"The stock rockers that I run on my Stocker have been modified to work with a 7/16" stud. They have also been coated. Valve spring pressure is right around 400 lbs (open). I have never broken one."

"In the quarter those modified rockers see 7200-7500. I ran box stock rockers for years past 7000 and never had a failure. The reason for the 7/16" studs is reduced flex, which means a few extra HP."

I think that's insane!

 

You asked what I would do. A stable valve train is way more important than a big cam. I run 7/16 studs, guide plates, chromoly pushrods, beehive's,
1.7's with 6k shift points on the stock cam. I would put the cam in the closet until I had the ported heads and shortblock capable of the 6500+ rpm's needed to use the power of that cam.

 

I do not know if the stock stamped rocker will support the lifts you are proposing without binding on the rocker stud, you are adding .142 over the stock LT1 lift (30% increase); assuming it works, you will also be adding a lot of heat to the cylinder head.

I personally like SAR as they are less maintenance. A SAR usually fails due to valve bounce/float, as the SAR relies on rails which contact the sides of the valve stem to stay aligned. With the spring pressures and rpms you are contemplating, i doubt you will have issues with float or bounce.

 

What maintenance do non self-aligning rockers have?

 

Must be some special new adjustments LOL

 

not really maintenance. I tend to check them more often than I do SARs. Probably not good "practice" but in theory SARs could handle incorrect lash better as SARs have physical retention at both ends of the rocker, so they make me feel less nervous when I am too lazy to take off a valve cover.

For an engine making moderate hp at near stock rpm and which does not get regular breakdown/inspection, I think a properly designed SAR valve train is the best for a cost/reliability/maintenance standpoint. I think where the SARs fail (and why everyone gives them a bad rap) is when they get pushed beyond what they can reliably do (kind of like where the stamped rockers are likely to be in the OP).

 

Thanks, this type of info is what I'm after. I wish there were specs out there or people with exact numbers for tolerances and clearances on things like this.

 

You can use a wire type feeler gauge to measure between the rocker stud and the rocker arm at max lift to see if you have any room. (I doubt you will but I do not know what the slot spec is on a stock rocker.) They slots can be modified on stock rockers but it is still probably be cheaper and easier just to get long slot full roller rockers as clearance is not the only issue.

I think a bigger problem than clearance will be the heat. You are almost doubling spring pressures, which is going to increase the upward loading on the pivot ball (increased pressure is increased friction), as well as increased travel through the arc to make your lift, that is going to generate a lot of heat. I recall reading a magazine test on various rockers in high rpm, high lift cam applications (think it might have been a Ford but the theory is the same) and I think they had to shut one run down because they were melting the stock style ball pivot rockers.