Add up to what? 10hp?

I guess if your goal is only to gain 20-30hp from a bunch of little mods without touching your engine, then go ahead and put on underdrive pullies, port your MAF, and relocate you IAT sensor. But you end up with a car with a rough idle, detonation, and charging problems..... and you still can't beat an LS1!

 

I have a the little bolt'ons and I can out run a LS1

 

Well, I figured I'd share my .02 on the topic. I have a piggy-back style crank pulley I got off a friend for $30. He was installing a blower and could no longer use it. I like it. I don't know what you all are talking about when you say its hard to install. I installed it in his driveway because I didn't have a puller at my house. And he didn't even have air tools. I've never had a problem charging (although it gets a little low sometimes) and I do notice a little more throttle response. Its cheap and easy, I'd say its a good thing to go with.

 

Even after you removed your March underdrive pully?

 

Uh, you do realize each part you add or remove affects every other part in relation to it, right? It is what's referred to as a "synergistic" effect. Look that up. Lemme give you an example. You install heads on your LT1. Let's say the heads yield a 25 hp gain. Now let's say you installed a cam on a different LT1 w/ stock heads. And let's just say the cam yields a 25 hp gain on that motor. If you combined the two mods in one motor, the end result is not a 50 hp gain, but more like 65-70. Why? Because these parts have a synergistic effect on each other. They have a relation to each other in function, therefore by modifying both, each individual part works better because both designs were improved and run more efficiently. So what makes you think an under/overdrive pulley set which reduces the effort the motor has to make to power it's accessories is pointless? If you're saying a part like this is worthless, then maybe electric h2o pumps are pointless, or even lightweight engine internals, since they also reduce the strain the engine is put under to maintain operational? Maybe pulleys aren't a good idea to START with, but when your car has got the basics done to it already (intake, exhaust, ignition, gears) that one should consider a mod like pulleys...

Anyways, you say a bolt-on LT1 can't touch an LS1? I wasable to keep ahead of bone stock fresh LS1's with my 100,000+ mile LT1 with nothing more than bolt-ons (no n2o either) and trap speeds of 106 mph. Since then, I've ported my intake, installed a 1050cfm T/B, 1.6 RR's, swapped it to an M6, installed 4.10 gears, and as of this weekend, I will be installing race-ported heads & cam, injectors, fuel pump, ECM chip, and AFPR. Back to my point, though. You do realize that when you change something slight, even something like a pulley, you can affect the entire powerband? Did you ever think by performing all these "little" mods that you may only gain 20-30 hp, but over the entire powerband instead of just at a peak @ 4400 rpm or something of the like??

 

GET EM!

 

lol No not now they get me every time I took it off because all the xtra noids and stuff using power off the line. I actually have it F/S 65 shipped with the belt

 

WOW! Now I am convinced to actually do it......some great points were made there for sure.

OK, so the March 2 pulley set is best? If not, what is? What is the benefit of the 2 pulleys vs just the one? Does the alternator charge better with the pulley change in the 2 pulley setup?

Thanks y'all.....I love this place for all the info! Keep it comin'!

 

Thank you for addressing this issue. I haven't bought a pulley because I was afraid of the charging aspects and also because of the rotating mass. The stock pulley is pretty heavy and one that doesn't replace it isn't worth it imo.

Are the ASPs aluminum? It seems like a damper would have to be somewhat heavy. Did you pick up any vibrations or have any tests been done on increased harmonics with UD pulleys?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by slimdawson
Thank you for addressing this issue. I haven't bought a pulley because I was afraid of the charging aspects and also because of the rotating mass. The stock pulley is pretty heavy and one that doesn't replace it isn't worth it imo.

Are the ASPs aluminum? It seems like a damper would have to be somewhat heavy. Did you pick up any vibrations or have any tests been done on increased harmonics with UD pulleys? [/QUOTE

The pulleys go between the hub and harmonic damper, so vibrations are not an issue.

 

buy the 2-pulley, I bought a 1-pulley first, and I didn't have charging problems, but with my aftermarket stereo, when it would idle for awhile, the stereo would turn off for a few seconds and come back on. What made this really annoying was that it happened at every stop light if my car was idling around 600 rpm!! Buy two pulleys, save the hassle.

 

Matching a cam to heads is quite a bit different than installing a pulley. If you had heads and a cam you wouldn't even notice a pulley.

No, I said that the gain from a pulley is so small that if you were doing a 450 hp motor you wouldn't need any more "synergy"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SGFuryZ
[B]I wasable to keep ahead of bone stock fresh LS1's with my 100,000+ mile LT1 with nothing more than bolt-ons (no n2o either) and trap speeds of 106 mph.

Me too! No pulley.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SGFuryZ
[B]Since then, I've ported my intake, installed a 1050cfm T/B, 1.6 RR's, swapped it to an M6, installed 4.10 gears, and as of this weekend, I will be installing race-ported heads & cam, injectors, fuel pump, ECM chip, and AFPR.

The gains are smaller at lower RPMs. Maybe 1 hp at 1K RPM. 2hp at 2K RPM ...

Is that a good mod? Is it worth it? Or should you save your money and get a new video game or take your girlfriend out for dinner and a movie?

I had a 2 pulley set on my V6 Camaro. It barely made a difference, even on that little motor.

 

Does anyone have a website where we can look at this pulley?

 

Well, if you owned a V6 camaro and planned on going fast, you already made your first mistake... I agree...waste of money for a V6. BTW, was your V6 a manual & a 3.4L? Thunder Racing actually gives you a warning that for V6's not to buy the pulleys unless it's a manual and it's designed for 3.4L's & not 3.8's.

Is it worth the money? I dunno, depends on where your priorities lie...Would you rather spend it on your car, or some girl who will likely break up with your *** in the future anyways? 1 hp? I think you're exaggerating a little there to make your argument sound stronger. BTW, HP and performance is more than SOTP. It's about numbers and timeslips.

Wait a minute...you say that once you're putting out 450+hp that you have no need for synergy??!?! BWAHAHAHA!! You do realize a supercharger's power output is solely reliant off what numbers the engine is putting out PRIOR to the install of the S/C??

Example: If the boost you were running yielded a 50% hp increase, a 300hp motor would only gain 150 hp, making 450 hp. a 400 hp motor, however would make a gain (running the same boost) of 200 hp, making 600 hp. So you would net an extra 50 horses by starting out with a 100 hp more. But of course, what's an extra 50 hp, when you're making 600, right?

 

That's right, my last car was a 3.4L V6 M5 Camaro. That little motor didn't make much torque, so the accessries really dragged it down. That's where the pulley was HELPING. It is a great mod for a V6 engine, but hardly noticeable on a V8 (if at all).

Thank you for your S/C example. Superchargers add significant horsepower. However I still think the underdrive pulley is a waste or time and money on a V8.