Trouble with new motor...
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
From: Miami, Floor-it-a
Trouble with new motor...
Heres the deal...
We had a 95 Vette LT1 in our Project Ugly Duckling... Project ugly duckling was an 85 Z28 with the LT1 and T56... The car ran strong running a 12.9 at 110 mph with bolt ons...
Well, then he got the Caddy fleetwood... It has the same iron head version LT1 as the impalaSS...
So he needed to get rid of the Camaro...
The caddy had about 128K miles on the motor so I swapped them out because I wanted the 4 bolt main, the aluminum heads, and 14k mile motor...
We swapped out all the sensors between the motors, so everything would be ok....
We also threw in a 2800 stall TC while we were at it...
When the swap was done, the car ran great, a bit rich but very good...
Then the trouble came...
First it left me stranded... It looked as if the opti was bad... We swapped in a low milage spare opti... Car ran fine...
I did notice that the opti we took out felt heavy, like it had oil in it or something... But I had no oil leak from the seals nor intake manifold gasket...
Well now, the car is running pig rich!!!
Another thing I notice is that upon start up the car doesn't flare up... Like it just goes to the set RPM(750), and that is too low...
The car runs so rich that it doesn't drive well and it pops into the exhaust...
We have changed:
Plugs (NGK TR55 gapped at .50)
Wires (MSDs)
Coil (MSD)
AC Delco O2 sensors
Stock injectors
Opti
We have double checked the valve train and everything is fine!
It gets no DTCs what so ever...
All the sensors work fine according to datamaster and scanmaster...
All the header gaskets and collector gaskets are not leaking...
BTW we have used like 8 different programs, and all of then do the same thing, whether it is the stock caddy file or a program we had made for this swap...
Fuel pressure if fine, a constant 43 psi with the cap off...
When I give it a little rev, the car shows 14 degrees of knock... That is false knock because I can't hear anything... The motor is fine, makes no sounds what so ever besides the roller rockers.... So the motor hasn't been touched internally...
This are the mods the car has...
1.6 Crane Gold Roller Rockers
CSI electrical water pump
MSD Corvette Plug Wires (longer than Impy plug wires)
MSD Coil
12 inch 2800 stall TC
Vortech Elbow with K&N cone air filter
Heddman Headers designed for TPI camaros with O2s welded into the collectors
A pair of Magnaflow mufflers welded into the stock exhaust with the rest of the stock piping and resonators
All emissions capped off and deleted...
Other than that, I have no Idea what could be causing this...
The car runs so Rich that even at idle I can soficate, and this is outside in the open air!!!
Help me guys..... This thing has me really stumped!
We had a 95 Vette LT1 in our Project Ugly Duckling... Project ugly duckling was an 85 Z28 with the LT1 and T56... The car ran strong running a 12.9 at 110 mph with bolt ons...
Well, then he got the Caddy fleetwood... It has the same iron head version LT1 as the impalaSS...
So he needed to get rid of the Camaro...
The caddy had about 128K miles on the motor so I swapped them out because I wanted the 4 bolt main, the aluminum heads, and 14k mile motor...
We swapped out all the sensors between the motors, so everything would be ok....
We also threw in a 2800 stall TC while we were at it...
When the swap was done, the car ran great, a bit rich but very good...
Then the trouble came...
First it left me stranded... It looked as if the opti was bad... We swapped in a low milage spare opti... Car ran fine...
I did notice that the opti we took out felt heavy, like it had oil in it or something... But I had no oil leak from the seals nor intake manifold gasket...
Well now, the car is running pig rich!!!
Another thing I notice is that upon start up the car doesn't flare up... Like it just goes to the set RPM(750), and that is too low...
The car runs so rich that it doesn't drive well and it pops into the exhaust...
We have changed:
Plugs (NGK TR55 gapped at .50)
Wires (MSDs)
Coil (MSD)
AC Delco O2 sensors
Stock injectors
Opti
We have double checked the valve train and everything is fine!
It gets no DTCs what so ever...
All the sensors work fine according to datamaster and scanmaster...
All the header gaskets and collector gaskets are not leaking...
BTW we have used like 8 different programs, and all of then do the same thing, whether it is the stock caddy file or a program we had made for this swap...
Fuel pressure if fine, a constant 43 psi with the cap off...
When I give it a little rev, the car shows 14 degrees of knock... That is false knock because I can't hear anything... The motor is fine, makes no sounds what so ever besides the roller rockers.... So the motor hasn't been touched internally...
This are the mods the car has...
1.6 Crane Gold Roller Rockers
CSI electrical water pump
MSD Corvette Plug Wires (longer than Impy plug wires)
MSD Coil
12 inch 2800 stall TC
Vortech Elbow with K&N cone air filter
Heddman Headers designed for TPI camaros with O2s welded into the collectors
A pair of Magnaflow mufflers welded into the stock exhaust with the rest of the stock piping and resonators
All emissions capped off and deleted...
Other than that, I have no Idea what could be causing this...
The car runs so Rich that even at idle I can soficate, and this is outside in the open air!!!
Help me guys..... This thing has me really stumped!
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 641
From: St. Charles, Il
IAC, leaking injector...
Cracked spark plug causing one cylander not to fire at all... You can do my check for this with the infired thermometer on each primary.... Or do the better, more tedius way. I had bad luck with those plugs in my car. It ran for about 5k miles but not near as good as it did with the delco platnums.
I assume you have no evap or EGR to be stuck open, um...
What computer are you usining? What were the differences in the 2 wiring setups? Extra O2s that arent hooked up?
I dunno man you got pretty much everything.
Cracked spark plug causing one cylander not to fire at all... You can do my check for this with the infired thermometer on each primary.... Or do the better, more tedius way. I had bad luck with those plugs in my car. It ran for about 5k miles but not near as good as it did with the delco platnums.
I assume you have no evap or EGR to be stuck open, um...
What computer are you usining? What were the differences in the 2 wiring setups? Extra O2s that arent hooked up?
I dunno man you got pretty much everything.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 275
From: Goose Creek, SC
Could it be the possibility that maybe its the TPS? when they go bad or are faulty u'll burn more gas (i learned this on my 86 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3.8 V6, hell of a motor
) any who i know u said the scannmaster isn't picking up anything but maybe between the two LT1 versions the iron block/Vortec head LT1 has a little bit diff. TPS ??? diff fuel requirements, and maybe b4 u started having probs. the computer didn't learn that the TPS was diff. until u hit ur 250 miles ??just trying to help out!
) any who i know u said the scannmaster isn't picking up anything but maybe between the two LT1 versions the iron block/Vortec head LT1 has a little bit diff. TPS ??? diff fuel requirements, and maybe b4 u started having probs. the computer didn't learn that the TPS was diff. until u hit ur 250 miles ??just trying to help out!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
From: Miami, Floor-it-a
THanx guys.. We changed the plugs again!!! Still bad...
The wring is different, but we swapped out all the sensors and used the caddy harness...
BTW TPS is fine, reads 0% at idle, and goes up as you opent he throttle... TPS Voltage read .80 at idle and goes to 4.3 at WOT...
Yes we had the Pcm programmed for the vette motor... Thanx To Ion by the way.........
The wring is different, but we swapped out all the sensors and used the caddy harness...
BTW TPS is fine, reads 0% at idle, and goes up as you opent he throttle... TPS Voltage read .80 at idle and goes to 4.3 at WOT...
Yes we had the Pcm programmed for the vette motor... Thanx To Ion by the way.........
Last edited by NorySS; Jun 26, 2003 at 12:48 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,577
From: DeKalb, IL
Nory,
sorry about your problems man. From what I've talked to Rusty, I think your injectors could be bad. If you could wait a few days and you can't get your hands on a good set in the mean time, I'll have some soon I can send you to try.
sorry about your problems man. From what I've talked to Rusty, I think your injectors could be bad. If you could wait a few days and you can't get your hands on a good set in the mean time, I'll have some soon I can send you to try.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
From: Miami, Floor-it-a
Ok I went out and bought a new opti spark, and it still rusn like crap...
Fuel pressure is fine, and no it is not dumping fuel through the vaccum line...
We just disconnect the exhaust right before the mufflers to make sure they weren't clogged and the car is still running like crap...
I switched out my MAP sensor and Optispark wiring harness with working ones, and you guess it the car still runs like crap....
Does anyone know how to correctly check the opti spark to make sure it is working correctly?
I took a datamaster log with the car idling and giving it a couple of revs...
So if anyone could help me out by viewing
Datamaster Log.....
The only thing I have left to change would be the knock sensors...
Anyone else have any suggestions?
Fuel pressure is fine, and no it is not dumping fuel through the vaccum line...
We just disconnect the exhaust right before the mufflers to make sure they weren't clogged and the car is still running like crap...
I switched out my MAP sensor and Optispark wiring harness with working ones, and you guess it the car still runs like crap....
Does anyone know how to correctly check the opti spark to make sure it is working correctly?
I took a datamaster log with the car idling and giving it a couple of revs...
So if anyone could help me out by viewing
Datamaster Log.....
The only thing I have left to change would be the knock sensors...
Anyone else have any suggestions?
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 333
From: Palm Bay, Florida
Make sure you don't have an exhaust leak at the headers. If air is getting in before the oxygen sensors, then the car will continue to run richer and richer until it matches the air getting in.
-Dave C. '97 Z28
-Dave C. '97 Z28
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
From: Miami, Floor-it-a
Like I stated in my first post, there is no exhaust leak! All gaskets are fine...
I know what an exhaust leak is and have had it before, and it will not make the car run this crappy! The car is so back that my bud can't even drive it past 25mph!!
Nory
I know what an exhaust leak is and have had it before, and it will not make the car run this crappy! The car is so back that my bud can't even drive it past 25mph!!
Nory
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
From: Miami, Floor-it-a
Originally posted by 96ZRDR
What is your IAT sensor reading? MAP at idle?
What is your IAT sensor reading? MAP at idle?
And the Map is at 11" Hg according to datamaster....
BTW I have the link to the datamaster log file...
Here is the Datamaster Log run file agaim....
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 254
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Have you checked out the oxygen sensors? I was going crazy with my car running pig rich and not hardly wanting to run at all after a header installe. I had a combination of bad oxygen sensors and two burnt plug wires.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
From: Miami, Floor-it-a
We have a brand new set of MSD wires and 2 sets of plugs....
None of the wires are touching the headers, and all the boots are covered with spark plug boots that cost $50 for a set...
Also we put in a set of working O2s and then a new set of O2s....
We put 2 used OptiSparks, and finally put a NEW OPTICRAP
-3 Sets of Plugs
-New Coil
-New Spark plug wires
-New O2 Sensors
-New Header Gaskets
-New Collector Gaskets
-Checked Injector Resistance
-Checked for Vacuum Leaks, with WD40(But Intake Gaskets were Replaced before doin motor swap)
-Checked ValveTrain, for Noises or Broken Springs
*Injector resistance was at 13.3 Ohms, Give or Take a .up or a .down(Checked with the Injectors HOT after car was running)
* IAC resistance was 53.5 Ohms
IAC alwayz starts off at 160 when cold, but once the Motor is Warm the IAC comes down to About 00-03 with the A/C off
None of the wires are touching the headers, and all the boots are covered with spark plug boots that cost $50 for a set...
Also we put in a set of working O2s and then a new set of O2s....
We put 2 used OptiSparks, and finally put a NEW OPTICRAP
-3 Sets of Plugs
-New Coil
-New Spark plug wires
-New O2 Sensors
-New Header Gaskets
-New Collector Gaskets
-Checked Injector Resistance
-Checked for Vacuum Leaks, with WD40(But Intake Gaskets were Replaced before doin motor swap)
-Checked ValveTrain, for Noises or Broken Springs
*Injector resistance was at 13.3 Ohms, Give or Take a .up or a .down(Checked with the Injectors HOT after car was running)
* IAC resistance was 53.5 Ohms
IAC alwayz starts off at 160 when cold, but once the Motor is Warm the IAC comes down to About 00-03 with the A/C off