+1.

 

I agree with this as well. If max effort going fast is your goal, then you truly cannot beat an LSx build, the top end available is so far superior. However, for those of us who don't want to swap k-members, wiring, PCM, transmission, already have some of the parts (ie forged rods, ported heads, oil pan, etc.) and only need a rebuild, or are building a mostly street car, and want a little extra hp and a lot more torque, this would be a great block to go with, IMO.

I think a 400+ci LT1 would still be able to make good power and be more streetable than the same power 383 for example. The extra cubes would 'eat' up the cam so to speak, making it more streetable. This block is for the more "mild" and budget builds than the all out power builds, those that already have enough money in their LT1 cars to spend more swapping everything for LSx. Personally, with the parts I have now, it would cost me a lot more to build a big cube LSx motor with 550hp than it would an SHP LTx motor with 550 hp.

Sure if I had $10k to spend, I would go LSx without question, but I don't, and for just a few $k more than I have now given I already have most of the parts for a rebuild, I could easily build a <6500rpm 427ci LT1 with over 550+fwhp, and have TONS of torque to go with it.

 

It's not that much more to swap for the benefit you get. The majority of cost is not in the parts, it's in the labor (for most folks). The transmission is the most costly of the parts that need to be swapped - everything else does cost something, but it's not a budget buster.

If just having a fun street car using the technology/platform that came in your car, a well built & assembled 383/h/c combo with gear would suit the bill just fine. No need for 440+ CI IMO. And if you think it's worth it based on the premise that the CI alone will get you to 550+fwhp for a few thousand more, more power to you. You will still need a killer set of heads, a matched cam and the right piston/compression to get you there. If you have these already, you might be close, but if not, the "few thousand more" will approach $10k in a hurry.

My point was if you're now going through the effort to swap blocks, now is the time to step forward, not backward. The cost is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be - buy right and offset costs with the sale of the LTX parts. Going fast just isn't cheap no matter what.

 

So a 421 or 415 inch LT1 with present technology heads and camshafts would be a turd?

Do older 23 degree SBCs make no power?

I'm confused.

 

you can convert pretty much any gen 1 head onto an lt1 (many people have put sb2.2 top ends on lt1s and trapped well into the 130's) so I don't really see head choice being any sort of limit unless you want to limit yourself to only LTx castings and even then you can do quite a bit with those.

yes LSx stuff is better in design and efficiency, but last I checked it's the car owner who goes out and earn the money to sink into his vehicle of choice so who cares how he does so. I for one would diffenately consider this a real option for my next build if it comes to fruitition, I wouldn't be looking for a high hp monster car so this block would be very suitable for my goals

 

Nope, and neither are 383/385CI LT1's assembled properly. The issue here (right or wrong) is whether the cost of the larger LTX block is a worthwhile investment. The answer will be different for everyone based on budget and goals.

 

I'll agree with ya there that the LSx platform is outstanding, and very worthwhile, but the internals of a traditional SBC are pretty cheap, also considering the LT1s sharer the valvetrain as well , the cost of a big cube LT1 would be reasonable.

I see a 4.155 bore and a 4.00 inch stroke LT1 with a properly worked intake being a very nasty street car.

 

"It'll never work!" "That's stupid!" "What I've done is right and EVERYTHING else is wrong!" It's this flawed mentality that delays innovation.

Thankfully the Negative Nancy's of the world are still the minority.

 

If starting from scratch, buying heads, bottom end, machine work and everything else needed for a 383/396 build, then yes, a LSx build just makes more sense. However for those that already have say, ported aftermarket heads (300+ cfm), build trans, clutch/converter, forged rods, etc. Then going LSx starts to cost more.

If this block came out, I already have forged Scat rods, Canton RR pan, new oil pump, timing chain, lifters, etc. all I would need for a 427 is to sell my forged 4.040 SPR pistons for 4.125 pistons, sell my 3.75" crank towards a 4" crank, sell my 4-bolt main block towards the SHP block, then get a custom cam, bearings, etc. I would probably sell my new LE3's towards a set of ported 21*TFS heads as well if going 427ci vs 385ci. So I would be out the difference (selling current parts vs new) of pistons, crank, block, and heads.

Or if I wanted to keep the costs down, then I could use my LE3's, 3.75" crank, sell my 4-bolt block, save the money on clearancing and a new crank, and have a 401ci motor for nearly the same price as it would cost me to build a 385ci machining my current block.

I will be running a high compression (12.5-13) E85 motor with mostly street, occasional autox/RR use, where the extra torque of a 427 vs 385 would be nice to have. Plus I'm out very little as compared to building a new 427 LSx. I think a 13:1 E85 fueled 427 LT1 with LE or AI ported 21* TFS heads and custom cam could possibly put out 500rwhp, and be very streetable as well.

Plus some people just like to keep their LT1 motors, love the sound, and some just would like to say they have a 400+ci LT1.

I think these could sell if the price range was in the same range of the SBC SHP block.

Just my opinion. If these come out, I will be buying one.

 

Innovation? Producing a big-inch second generation sbc isn't innovation, and while I'm pleased to see it, producing a block to a relatively minor user group just doesn't make a lot of business sense - maybe I'm wrong. You can do what you want with your money, but don't kid yourself or anyone else that should this block become available that it will somehow become some type of equalizer for most due to "innovation". A well-built LSX engine, even one with lesser displacement, will still kick the crap out of the LTX big-inch engine in most instances with proper (and with all other things being relatively equal) parts. While it will have obvious potential, the reality is that most don't capitalize on the potential of what they already have.

Not being negative, just real. I have a gen I bbc, gen II LTX, gen III LS1, and a gen IV LS7, and the differences are worth the discussion and analysis.

As said earlier, some people simply want the LTX moniker, which is fine and if so, this block will serve a niche market well. It will also serve well those with a substantial investment in parts that "should" bolt right up to this block that do not want to make the change to another generation platform. It's not a magic solution - you still have to get things absolutely right. No amount of "innovation" will ever compensate for that.

Good luck you guys.

 

I think some are missing just what a bang for the buck this would be. We're talking fully machined, ready to build blocks in the $1800 range from certain vendors. For anybody building a four bolt 396, 383 or even 355 it's only a couple hundred more and it's a much better block.

It's hard to think of a good reason not to go that route should it become available. I'd say the argument of dumping all your stuff and going LSX applies even more to anybody contemplating a 383, 396, etc--with a 414, 427, etc for only a couple hundred more you've at least closed the gap in power for very little additional money. People here will spend more than that difference on their mufflers and think nothing of it...40-some cubic inches is a good way to spend a couple hundred bucks. Not to mention getting a much stronger block, thicker cylinder walls, better oiling to the bearings, etc.

 

I think you're right - if for nothing more than getting a better quality block that can safely go beyond the traditional limits of the gen II stuff we've been dealing with since 1993. For those wishing to keep the LT1 for whatever reason, this would be a good proposition for them.

 

I kinda feel this is starting to head toward a pissing contest. And I should stay out of it, but I will add this just because someone have a LSx engine doesn't necessarily mean you will trump all LTx platforms you run across, not every LSx running around has been worked, And most teenagers that run around in these cars don't have 12k to drop in either one of these platforms, You have to remember their are only a handfull of us with the willingness to really squeeze the HP out of these engines anyway.. I say if you want to build a LSx then go build it and spend your money how you want it , and if I want a big bore LTx thats what I will do and we can compare notes on the Dragstrip ..

This Isn't my car but here's a reminder for all the haters of what a LT1 can throw down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7dyXgTNvtA

 

Who's hating on the LTX in this thread? And as far as comparing notes at the dragstrip - I'll take that bet

 

if you have an LTx car and you want to build a stroker, why not start with a brand new higher strength block that offers another much higher displacement instead of starting with a questionable used block? I'm hoping that Dart will consider offering a tall deck version and LT1 specific intake manifold spacers. I would REALLY like to see a version that uses the standard Gen1 SBC deck (to make Gen1 head swap MUCH easier.)