SStrokerAce

That's what it is meant for. I wanted to give head/cam guys one more alternative before going to a stroker or aftermarket heads when they want more out of their motor. Ken's setup is a Head/Cam setup so that is where you are going to see results from on it first.


Ken thanks for answering questions and linking the old thread.

Bret

Mindgame

This is a great idea IMO.

For those of you building, what I would call a "next level" engine using a Super Vic or similar Brodix manifold is the hot ticket. Granted, this one is being developed for a 355 but it would work great on a stroker with some porting.

Also, it's not too long a runner like a tru tuned port (superram, L98 TPI intake, etc) which means it won't have a hard time working with greater overlap cams. Not to mention, the power should be right where we want it in a 4speed auto or M6.

Like I said... can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm building a 355 for a friend right now and this is the direction we would like to take as well.

Then, maybe one for my ride....

-Mindgame

kmook

Who has a 355?
And i'd really like to see how much better a difrent manifold would do on your setup than that LT4.

Mindgame

That's an example of my thinking Ken.

I was ahead of myself.... meant to say that the engine we're building is a 355 and then I wrapped that into my other comments.

For the record..... Bret and Ken are talking stock shortblock here.

Yes, I would like to swap the intake and see what happens. Maybe someone can use a LT4/15º intake/spacer setup?

-Mindgame

96speed

Stock TB setup: Keeping cruise control is good.

Bret,

Are you making a bolt-on adapter, or going to weld some kind of collar onto it such as this?:

Fabricated "collar"

I'm anxious for track times/mph. Hydraulic roller?

A little tangent, but I asked Darren Harden about the Comp ProPac springs and he said he's had nothing but problems with them on LS1 heads. He has not run them on a GenI setup, though. Darren has built some sick LT1 stuff including Jason Shorts ProAction headed 410:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...76_50_full.jpg

...and a SB2.2 LT1:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...676_2_full.jpg

With some mild 130mph NA stuff in between. I think his opinion has some merit .

Have you ever personally used the ProPac/"Beehive" springs and had good luck?

Ryan

4drLT4

Ryan...

Funny you ask, Comp p/n# 26595 ProPac Beehive springs are going on my Impala as I type. I'll post the results.

Bob

96speed

I'm anxious to see your results, Bob.

Mindgame: Your PM box is full...sent you an email .

Ryan

SStrokerAce

No nothing like that, a elbow setup is not bad but how are you going to get that under a stock hood? On top of that TB is not even close to it's stock mounting point.


Yep it's a custom HR setup that we are doing for Ken.


Never used the dual LS1 Pro Pacs yet, they just seem to expensive and it takes about 30mins after a head teardown to machine the spring seats in the heads so why spend all that cash when you can use tradtional stuff? I have used the beehive springs though.


Too bad we don't get to see that thing run. It's for sale. Probably a good 640-650hp motor, I'm betting not as driveable as MG's motor though with that cam in it.

Yes I have used them and they work great. Understanding them and the benefits that they give to the whole system is the key to them. Ken is not using them in his setup though, but I am going to drop some on my old Engine Masters 365 with a new HR cam which should make that puppy good for 600-620hp.

Anyways back on subject.... cams and springs are another topic.

Bret

CamaroBoy96Z28

I'm really interested in seeing how this works out on Ken's motor. I've been looking around at ideas for the intake lately and this looks like it'll turn out great. Any idea when it'll be ready for experimentation?

SStrokerAce

Thanks

I've done some Super Vic converstions. Just got some results from a SuperVic I did and a SR cam for a carbed 383 LT1 with LT1 head castings setup for N2O. The guy had it on Mike Moran's dyno up in Michigan and it made 592hp @ 6900 NA and 962hp @ 6400 with a small shot (like a 200shot or so not sure on the jet yet) The cam was for a N2O setup so I was happy to see that it responded that well to the juice. I was guessing about 600hp NA with what he had to work with. Basically that just shows what a good intake can do for a LT1 motor.

The one I am doing now is based off a casting, because I like keep things simple rather than have to fab up every inch of it. It's not a SuperVic that I'm using this time but the SuperVic is one of my favorite single plane intakes.

It doesn't have runners that are super long like the TPI or SuperRam in fact I shortened the runners in the casting to get it where I wanted it.

Me too, I mean I get to see it in progress but I want to see some dyno numbers on it.

What castings are you guys using on the 355?

LOL I wish. I'm pretty sure that it would take some serious work to get it to match to a 15 deg casting since the runner is raised so much more than the LT1 casting. Let alone the milling to match the intake to the heads. I would guess that you are probably about dead nuts in the right ball park with your intake, where the BRE Pro Ram (how about that name?) is a leap forward for the LT1 setup. IMHO of course.

Bret

SStrokerAce

MG,

I just was thinking, why don't you get a set of these converted over to a LT1 and then I might be able to match the intake ports up with these heads... http://www.weldtech.com/graphics/AP_Brodix_10XAP.gif

Gotta flow pretty close to yours and the cross sectional and volume might be a tad larger, but those would make some nice power even though they are a 23deg head.

Bret

Mindgame

Very impressive Bret!


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mindgame
Also, it's not too long a runner like a tru tuned port (superram, L98 TPI intake, etc) which means it won't have a hard time working with greater overlap cams. Not to mention, the power should be right where we want it in a 4speed auto or M6.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me reword this in saying that IMO the Vic Jr, Super, etc have about the right length runner for these 6500-7000 rpm lt1 builds. Not only does it have the length, it has some taper. So it's gonna tune like you're saying but it's also not going to want to revert like these ultra long intakes I mentioned (L98, superram etc). Don't know if you've messed with those alot Bret but it's not uncommon to pull the cover and see fuel dripping out the runners on the superram. Camshaft specs have to be right on for those intakes to work right. Guess that's why Lingenfelter designed so many cams specifically for them.... most being short duration (very little overlap).

Plus the single planes are going to work better on the strokers.... even without extra porting... although I'd do some if I were building.

About how long are the runners now? So essentially you have more plenum volume and a shorter runner??


I have an Edelbrock 2975 and two Brodix intakes.... the HV1000 and a HV1003. I'm not sure which we'll use, nor are we opposed to going to a Super Vic. Most likely it'll come down to space under the hood (Harwood probably).

We have discussed using a 4bbl throttle body and a K&N 14x3 with the xtreme flow lid. Then seal the thing to the underside of the hood and pickup air from the cowl opening at the rear... ala old school.

That or run a shortened elbow and a LSx style throttle body.

We'll have to do some mocking-up to see what will work first....


Either way, much of my curiosity with what you guys are doing is simple.... I might be giving you a call here sometime soon. No sense in treading new water when someone's already been there. I might be bringing you some business.

Quote:

LOL I wish. I'm pretty sure that it would take some serious work to get it to match to a 15 deg casting since the runner is raised so much more than the LT1 casting. Let alone the milling to match the intake to the heads. I would guess that you are probably about dead nuts in the right ball park with your intake, where the BRE Pro Ram (how about that name?) is a leap forward for the LT1 setup. IMHO of course.

Bret

Yeah, I'd need to work this around the GM 487 or 481. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile. A bit greedy but worthwhile.

That -10X AP head is a real monster of a 23º head, no doubt! Is that a new WeldTech job? Never seen that one before...

No, my next crazy stunt...... aluminum Dart talldeck (~450 ci) with 18º or canted valve heads. Shoehorn that into the 4th gen with the help of BMR and say goodbye to the LTx block all together. I have the block, just need to round up the other parts to make her fly. Turning 6500rpm with that one should prove interesting. Oh yeah, it'll be a street car too.

-Mindgame

simple

ballpark price figures?

how are the intake runner openings gonna fit stock ported LT1 heads, as opposed to larger heads (LT4 and bigger AFR's etc.) or does that not matter much?

will this be a direct bolt on intake (no quirks)?

if all goes well do you have plans of mass producing?
ballpark pricing figures?

do you feel the stock throttle body will be a restriction mated to this intake? i see mentions of 58mm and monoblades is why i ask

why wasnt the stock casting used as a basis for the project?

awesome to hear this news

Steve

dmoss69

Wouldn't LT1 intakes be the easiest to fab up since there is no water ports and jackets to take into concideration?

Flat plate in the lifter valley roof, another flat plate across each head with a flange port matched to the heads, and then 8 runners up to a single plentum.

I made this sound way too easy! Of course, you know I've never done anything like this before. I've just seen one my buddy made for his 383 dodge engine, so if I need to stick with my stocker, just let me know.

But if there is a way for me to fab one up, I'll try it.

D Moss

Mindgame

If you use the stock intake as a basis for the design, then you're still limited to that runner length. That nullifies the whole reason for going to the single plane carb intake....... more runner length and taper = stronger inertial tuning effect.

The wet part of the intake I don't see as a problem. The 1st gen intakes have a branch leading from the water inlet to both cylinder heads. If you are using the LT1/LT4 intake manifold gasket then you've blocked that passage off anyways. Can't flow anywhere anyways because of the head.

D,

I like to tinker as much as the next guy but you'd better know what you're doing if you plan to build an intake from scratch. I really don't see the point when you have proven intake designs to work with.

Way back up the thread someone mentioned the Vortec intake. Got me curious. Do you (poster of that suggestion) know for sure that that intake will work? GM builds a Vortec Eliminator intake (single plane like a Victor) so I'm just curious.

-Mindgame