LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 04:44 PM
  #16  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by JustNO
Describe healty, so I can tell you it is or it is not

As I said the engine is built by Thunder, they are pro, I don't think they did a mistake, but it is possible too, thats because it called "mistake".



Everything looks normal. Rockers are sitting straight. Is there any possibility to be a mistake with valve angle? I mean for the third picture, that would be because of valve angle fault?

sorry for my bad spelling
I woudln't know about your valve angle. I have no idea what's exactly done to your heads. All this I'm typing is mere speculation.
A healthy valvetrain is one that isn't doing what yours is doing.
Basically I would get Thunder involved in this ASAP.
Old Jul 31, 2006 | 04:57 PM
  #17  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by BUBBA
Well, of course, I don't know, but how do you know that your push rod length was correct to begin with----was the required length measured correctly? Obviously you are not using stock length, so there must be a reason why you are not using stock.
Measured by Thunder and I didn't think there would be a problem. The pushrods that they used are 7.400" lenght. Just 3 valves stems marks are centered, the rest marks show that the 7.400" longer than I need. The problem is when I replace the 7.200" (I measured and the best size is this), those 3 marks will go up. And for those valves I will need longer rods. Anyway I can handle that, I just don't want a trouble because of third picture. Because there are 8 of them.
Old Jul 31, 2006 | 05:00 PM
  #18  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by SS RRR
I woudln't know about your valve angle. I have no idea what's exactly done to your heads. All this I'm typing is mere speculation.
A healthy valvetrain is one that isn't doing what yours is doing.
Basically I would get Thunder involved in this ASAP.
You are right I sent email them this morning and waiting reply, but before that I wanted to hear, if this is a big deal or not.
Heads came from AFR with everything. There shouldn't be any mistake about valve angle.
Old Jul 31, 2006 | 05:07 PM
  #19  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Is the discrepancy with both the I and EX valves---don't know why, but maybe you need different sized rods for the INt and the exhaust. If the marks are off on both intake and exhaust, I'd just make sure that they chose the right sized rods. It doesn't make any sense to me that you would be getting different marks---substantially off center if you had the correct length rods with all other factors being equal----adjustments etc. JMHO
Old Aug 1, 2006 | 01:43 PM
  #20  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by JustNO
Is this normal? Look at the marks of rocker arms.

its centered.



This is different cylinder and its downside of center



And also I saw this, it is not centered??

Deniz,

My name is Shane, I work here at Thunder Racing with Madman. What you are seeing in these pictures is totally normal for a large port small block chevy head with stud mount rockers. Due to the large size of the intake port, the pushrod has to be canted out at a rather extreme angle to clear the port wall. This causes the rocker arm to be angled in relationship to the valve. If you notice, all of the the marks are perfectly centered to outboard of the valve tip. The valvetrain geometry is as good as it gets for this type of setup. Normally with a large head like this, I would put a set of offset shaft mount rocker arms but since this motor was completely spec'd by the customer, i installed what was provided. What you have is totally acceptable. As the engine runs, the wear marks as in picture 3 will even out over the valve tip. If you have any more questions you can email me directly at shane@thunderracing.com.

Thanks,
Shane

Also, when i determine pushrod length, i use a solid lifter and a dial indicator to determine optimum length. The pattern you are seeing will get you as close to full advertised lift as possible.

Last edited by madman69; Aug 1, 2006 at 01:48 PM.
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 12:09 AM
  #21  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by madman69
What you have is totally acceptable. As the engine runs, the wear marks as in picture 3 will even out over the valve tip.
What about the "wear marks" on the valve tips? If it is "totally acceptable" then what causes the wear marks to appear there and why?
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 01:38 AM
  #22  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

I presume the upper part of the picture is toward the intake.
Ya got any better pictures?
It appears the PR are too short in the 1st picture on the left.Can't see it very well.
This is pretty common in some heads as the PR studs are not exactly in line with the guides. If the guide plates have the RR's in the center of the stem that's all that can be done.
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 05:02 AM
  #23  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by 1racerdude
I presume the upper part of the picture is toward the intake.
Ya got any better pictures?
It appears the PR are too short in the 1st picture on the left.Can't see it very well.
This is pretty common in some heads as the PR studs are not exactly in line with the guides. If the guide plates have the RR's in the center of the stem that's all that can be done.
Why the markings on the valve tips?
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 10:58 AM
  #24  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by SS RRR
Why the markings on the valve tips?
Do you ask why there are markings on the valves stems? I think its normal? isn't it???
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 11:05 AM
  #25  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by 1racerdude
I presume the upper part of the picture is toward the intake.
Ya got any better pictures?
It appears the PR are too short in the 1st picture on the left.Can't see it very well.
This is pretty common in some heads as the PR studs are not exactly in line with the guides. If the guide plates have the RR's in the center of the stem that's all that can be done.
Yes upper part of the picture is toward the intake. In the 1st picture the mark is centered. isn't it? In the second picture pushrods are too long. I measure according to the second picture and ordered a set of 7.200" pushrods. Then I saw in the 1st picture marks, and I took off all the rockers to see the marks differences. And there are only 2 or 3 valve stem that the marks are centered. The rest is like 2nd picture. So 7.200" is kind a right lenght. I will remeasure tough.

I just wanted to know if something wrong about 3rd picture. Because I can't do anything about it if something wrong, and 12 or 13 rockers are like that. Should I use lash cap? But then I must get different size pushrods.

BTW marks are just marks, smooth.

Last edited by JustNO; Aug 2, 2006 at 11:15 AM.
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 11:28 AM
  #26  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by madman69
Deniz,

My name is Shane, I work here at Thunder Racing with Madman. What you are seeing in these pictures is totally normal for a large port small block chevy head with stud mount rockers. Due to the large size of the intake port, the pushrod has to be canted out at a rather extreme angle to clear the port wall. This causes the rocker arm to be angled in relationship to the valve. If you notice, all of the the marks are perfectly centered to outboard of the valve tip. The valvetrain geometry is as good as it gets for this type of setup. Normally with a large head like this, I would put a set of offset shaft mount rocker arms but since this motor was completely spec'd by the customer, i installed what was provided. What you have is totally acceptable. As the engine runs, the wear marks as in picture 3 will even out over the valve tip. If you have any more questions you can email me directly at shane@thunderracing.com.

Thanks,
Shane

Also, when i determine pushrod length, i use a solid lifter and a dial indicator to determine optimum length. The pattern you are seeing will get you as close to full advertised lift as possible.
Thanks for the explanation, I hope as you say those all are normal.

Could I use Shaft mount rockers with a daily/street hydrolic roller setup? I guess no
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 12:40 PM
  #27  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by JustNO
Thanks for the explanation, I hope as you say those all are normal.

Could I use Shaft mount rockers with a daily/street hydrolic roller setup? I guess no
Yes ya can if ya want to pay the 1500 dollars to get them.

The mark on the rockers is they are not contacting the valve stem perfectly square. Thats what I said in an earlier post.
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 02:54 PM
  #28  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by 1racerdude
Yes ya can if ya want to pay the 1500 dollars to get them.
Does it worth ? I mean for a hydrolic setup. (for a 240/246 ~580lift cam)

Originally Posted by 1racerdude
The mark on the rockers is they are not contacting the valve stem perfectly square. Thats what I said in an earlier post.
Yes I know, just asking if it is a big problem or not.
We adjust the pushrods lenght to get marks centered, it is important that the rocker tips' pressure has to be centered isn't it?. In the 3rd picture, because the pressure is on the right side of the valve stem, it should be a problem. I mean I also have a problem with right/left side pressure.
Anyway I even don't know what will happen if the pressure isn't centered.
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 03:25 PM
  #29  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by JustNO
Does it worth ? I mean for a hydrolic setup. (for a 240/246 ~580lift cam)



Yes I know, just asking if it is a big problem or not.
We adjust the pushrods lenght to get marks centered, it is important that the rocker tips' pressure has to be centered isn't it?. In the 3rd picture, because the pressure is on the right side of the valve stem, it should be a problem. I mean I also have a problem with right/left side pressure.
Anyway I even don't know what will happen if the pressure isn't centered.

Like I said the right/left thing happens all the time. It doesn't seem to bother things,but no it's not right. It would cost a set of offset lifters and shaft rockers,soo IMO it ain't worth it.(2000+dollars) Don't even know if they make offset lifters for hyd roller if not ya are talking mech roller which is more money.
Old Aug 2, 2006 | 05:32 PM
  #30  
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Re: Same size pushrods but different marks ?? (pictures)

Originally Posted by JustNO
Do you ask why there are markings on the valves stems? I think its normal? isn't it???
All the times I've set up my own junk along with others running 400+lb spring pressures I've never seen markings like that on the tops of the valves.
Are they impressions? Can you feel any kind of divot?



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