No Oil On Top End - New Motor Problems
08-17-2008, 06:28 PM
#46
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Engineerland
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There is no rule that says they have to stay where you put em or that you got them anywhere near straight your first time out either.
The bottom line is you're losing all the oil in the lifter galleys somewhere. All of the volume you talk about at the one closest to the pump is definaitly escaping somewhere if theres none on the other end.
The bottom line is you're losing all the oil in the lifter galleys somewhere. All of the volume you talk about at the one closest to the pump is definaitly escaping somewhere if theres none on the other end.
08-17-2008, 07:07 PM
#47
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Never hurts to triple check your own work especially if it is he first time you did it.
Not saying you did make a mistake, just saying be open to the possibility.
08-17-2008, 07:11 PM
#48
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True.. I am willing to admit I made a mistake.. and it is my first build so its very posable. I just really really hope I didnt. I do not want to pull that motor again. lol.
does each cam bearing feed the lifters above it or does just one feed the oil gally for all the lifters??..
does each cam bearing feed the lifters above it or does just one feed the oil gally for all the lifters??..
08-18-2008, 08:00 PM
#49
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Location: Mooresville, NC
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I had a bunch of collapsed lifters one time and it sounded HORRIBLE! 
See if you can push down on the pushrod side of the rocker. If so, you have a collapsed lifter. Check them all. Gonna have to turn the motor over some.
People were telling me it was a rod bearing, so I pulled the engine and took the bottom end all apart. THEN I found that the lifters had collapsed and all the bearings looked great!
See if you can push down on the pushrod side of the rocker. If so, you have a collapsed lifter. Check them all. Gonna have to turn the motor over some.People were telling me it was a rod bearing, so I pulled the engine and took the bottom end all apart. THEN I found that the lifters had collapsed and all the bearings looked great!
08-18-2008, 08:20 PM
#50
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oww.. there is a thread of hope!!!.. thats what im looking to hear.. lol.. even if its false hope..
I was going to slip the stock lifters back in, but I didnt store them correctly and they were all rusty.. pfff. so Im just going to order a new set.. dono if I want the LS7 lifters again or should I go with something else?..
I was going to slip the stock lifters back in, but I didnt store them correctly and they were all rusty.. pfff. so Im just going to order a new set.. dono if I want the LS7 lifters again or should I go with something else?..
08-18-2008, 09:39 PM
#51
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I just remember somehting VERY stupid that I did.. I dont know why I did it. but I covered my cam in cam breakin lube, then I put it all over the lifter, not just on the roller part. some of it DEFINATLY got inside the lifter. that stuff is THICK, Im sure that was not good for them.. im sure those lifters are junk. Think about it. they were good for a while, then the started falling off.. now they all doing stupid stuff. so. im going to put some new lifters in there, and see where that puts me!
08-18-2008, 11:13 PM
#54
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Location: waterford, MI - USA
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yep, even inside the lifter. you should have replaced the oil filter though, after the initial startup/warmup to get rid of that stuff cause it can clog oil filters. I always change the oil and filter after 20min. warm up. then again after 100 miles or so.
first time watching that video I saw the rockers not working proplery immediatly. Ive set lash on LOTS of cars before, so Im very familier with what they look like while the eng. is running. the way listed on shoebox' site is for SETUP. then you should go back and adj. them with the eng. running for the final adj.. the way I do this is turn the idle speed down with a scan tool to like 500rpm to cut down on the oil spraying out of the pushrods. also jack up the side of the car a little bit cause the oil will pool up at the rear of the head and overflow out onto the headers. very slowly loosen the first nut untl you can def. hear it clack. zero in on that rocker and slowly tighten it until it just barely doesnt make noise. then add in the preload and lock it down. move on to the next rocker in line. very easy and its dead on. oh yeah, wear gloves.
back to the subject, you could have spun a cam bearing. maybe it was lined up at first, then spun while the eng. was running somewhere along the30 miles and is now blocking off the hole. only one way to find that out.
did you already take all the lifters out? that priming tool you got will pump the lifters back up IF you have the pushrods and rockers back on. but like you said, there prolly all F'd up now after running like that for a while w/no oil pressure. wont hurt anything to buy another set, throw them in, set them all to zero lash (you can see the cam lobe with the intake off, so no worry about watching valves and stuff this time) and use the priming tool. it'll take several min.s at full speed to get oil to EVERY rocker through the lifter and pushrod. just keep goin until you see oil bleeding from each rocker arm. if you do get oil to all rockers after doin this, then try to reinstall the intake and start it. still watching the rockers to make sure there getting oil while running. dont even bother starting it up if you dont get oil to every rocker though. at that point, I agree. pull it apart and measure/inspect everything.
also, are you saying that you threaded the oil galley plugs in the back of the block? Im not positive, but dont the galleys have core plugs in the rear? like a freeze plug? or are they threaded plugs? anyways, have you pulled the trans and flexplate yet to see what the oil leak is that yet? could be from the cam plug maybe? if it was enough of a leak to keep oil from getting to the front lifters, it would be pouring out onto the floor as the eng. ran seems to me.
first time watching that video I saw the rockers not working proplery immediatly. Ive set lash on LOTS of cars before, so Im very familier with what they look like while the eng. is running. the way listed on shoebox' site is for SETUP. then you should go back and adj. them with the eng. running for the final adj.. the way I do this is turn the idle speed down with a scan tool to like 500rpm to cut down on the oil spraying out of the pushrods. also jack up the side of the car a little bit cause the oil will pool up at the rear of the head and overflow out onto the headers. very slowly loosen the first nut untl you can def. hear it clack. zero in on that rocker and slowly tighten it until it just barely doesnt make noise. then add in the preload and lock it down. move on to the next rocker in line. very easy and its dead on. oh yeah, wear gloves.
back to the subject, you could have spun a cam bearing. maybe it was lined up at first, then spun while the eng. was running somewhere along the30 miles and is now blocking off the hole. only one way to find that out.
did you already take all the lifters out? that priming tool you got will pump the lifters back up IF you have the pushrods and rockers back on. but like you said, there prolly all F'd up now after running like that for a while w/no oil pressure. wont hurt anything to buy another set, throw them in, set them all to zero lash (you can see the cam lobe with the intake off, so no worry about watching valves and stuff this time) and use the priming tool. it'll take several min.s at full speed to get oil to EVERY rocker through the lifter and pushrod. just keep goin until you see oil bleeding from each rocker arm. if you do get oil to all rockers after doin this, then try to reinstall the intake and start it. still watching the rockers to make sure there getting oil while running. dont even bother starting it up if you dont get oil to every rocker though. at that point, I agree. pull it apart and measure/inspect everything.
also, are you saying that you threaded the oil galley plugs in the back of the block? Im not positive, but dont the galleys have core plugs in the rear? like a freeze plug? or are they threaded plugs? anyways, have you pulled the trans and flexplate yet to see what the oil leak is that yet? could be from the cam plug maybe? if it was enough of a leak to keep oil from getting to the front lifters, it would be pouring out onto the floor as the eng. ran seems to me.
08-18-2008, 11:29 PM
#55
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I don't make the distinction that the non-running method is for setup only, because it is not. If you want to set them running, that's fine, too. Both work equally as well. It's personal preference.
08-19-2008, 11:33 AM
#57
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lol..yea, me to. I was going to put the stock lifters back in but they are all rusty.. so I need to pick up a set of lifters I can drop in there. Im looking for some used stock lifters that are known good rite now. if they fix the problem then I will get some good lifters. if they dont then I know I need to pull the motor. the spun cam bearing seems to be the most logical explination.. and the worst scenario. so if the new lifters are loud. then I will have to make plans to get the motor back out. The problem is I live in a comunity where you are not alowed to work on your car at all outside, it needs to be in a garage and I dont have one. no oil changes in your driveway even. and I pulled my motor outside. lol. they got mad. they said if I do anything like that I will be removed from the comunity.. wich means selling my house that I just bought a little more than a year ago. so If I need to remove the motor, I will need to do it at my moms house or something. and I know shes not going to like that at all!.. I just hope I dont need to pull the motor - if I do, it may be a while before I can do that (until I get a garage built).
so, I am talking to someone about gettin some lifters. someone offered me a set of used stock lifters with 65K miles on them, he wants $50 shipped.. seems kinda high right?..
so, I am talking to someone about gettin some lifters. someone offered me a set of used stock lifters with 65K miles on them, he wants $50 shipped.. seems kinda high right?..
08-19-2008, 05:40 PM
#58
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Agreed. I always just set mine with the engine off. I do not like the "spin the pushrod" method but static adjustment still works so long as the person finds true zero lash.
08-19-2008, 05:40 PM
#59
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ok. a very nice member of this forum helped me out and got me all set up with a set of lifters.. so I should have them in a few days.,. thanks again
and.. more good news.. I think that the cam bearings are fine..
I took a piece of electrical tape and put it around the part that was leaking on the primer and sealed it off good. now when I turn it with the drill I get all kinda of oil coming out everywhere.. ESPECIALLY when I take the pushrod off the lifter it almost sprays up out of the lifter (dribbles fast) (im sure those lifters are junk, but knowing that I have the pressure to do that is great).. even on the farthest lifter.. there is oil leaking out from where each lifter meets the pushrod is that normal?.. I primed it for 2 mins or so and didnt get any oil out the pushrods tho.. but I think I am all set on oil pressure up there.. I took the furthest lifter out and got tons of oil gushout out of the lifter bore. the same ammout as on the closest lifter to the pump..
so. maybe I need to find a way to be sure that the distributer dummy drive is not keaking somehow, cuz if it is.. I still read the same ammout of oil pressure, but none gets to the lifters.. hmm. maybe I will just buy a new one to be sure.. I cant really spin the pump fast enuff with the started (with intake manifold off) to see if its leaking.. so I dont know how else to test it?...
and.. more good news.. I think that the cam bearings are fine..
I took a piece of electrical tape and put it around the part that was leaking on the primer and sealed it off good. now when I turn it with the drill I get all kinda of oil coming out everywhere.. ESPECIALLY when I take the pushrod off the lifter it almost sprays up out of the lifter (dribbles fast) (im sure those lifters are junk, but knowing that I have the pressure to do that is great).. even on the farthest lifter.. there is oil leaking out from where each lifter meets the pushrod is that normal?.. I primed it for 2 mins or so and didnt get any oil out the pushrods tho.. but I think I am all set on oil pressure up there.. I took the furthest lifter out and got tons of oil gushout out of the lifter bore. the same ammout as on the closest lifter to the pump..
so. maybe I need to find a way to be sure that the distributer dummy drive is not keaking somehow, cuz if it is.. I still read the same ammout of oil pressure, but none gets to the lifters.. hmm. maybe I will just buy a new one to be sure.. I cant really spin the pump fast enuff with the started (with intake manifold off) to see if its leaking.. so I dont know how else to test it?...
08-19-2008, 05:41 PM
#60
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Location: waterford, MI - USA
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seeing as how there completely useless other then your scenario, yeah, thats high.
shoebox, guess I should have put "IMHO" after my statement. cause there are peole who just set them and go, but def. not me. Ive never had good success with that. they always make a little noise after the initial setup.
chris
shoebox, guess I should have put "IMHO" after my statement. cause there are peole who just set them and go, but def. not me. Ive never had good success with that. they always make a little noise after the initial setup.
chris