meziere Versus CSR
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 244
From: CT
meziere Versus CSR
I know you guys have discuss this a million times but this spring I want to change my water pump that has 140,000+ miles. Will an electric pump make the car run cooler since its more efficient? Is the life span good? If it fails would you know real quick? I read that you get an average 4 HP which I believe because its not driven on the cam. Thanks for your time.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 452
From: MO.
It runs cooler around town in stop and go traffic. However on the highway slightly warmer, but as soon as you take the exit, and as you come to a stop, it is dropping fast. I also have a 160 thermostat. I have on one my 91rs (~5,000mi now on it) and my 1996z28 (~25,000mi); I have had no issues with either in 4+yrs. You will find out in a hurry if they go bad, it just stops. There is no "limping" it home like there is with a mechanical pump. The good news is they are 10X easier to change out, that is after the initial install. Oh and it is more like 7-10rwhp
EDIT: Both of these are CSI/CSR. I think either brand is comparable; that is not including the meziere HD. I have had no experience with it.
EDIT: Both of these are CSI/CSR. I think either brand is comparable; that is not including the meziere HD. I have had no experience with it.
Last edited by 91RSLT1; Feb 14, 2008 at 09:23 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 631
From: LA/SD, CA
This argument has been drawn out for a long time. Its really up to your preference. I chose Meziere because they were local and almost all the impala guys run them with great results. Its not recommended that you run the water pump without a warning system, because it will eventually fail, and you might not glance at the temp gauge in time. If you're good with electronics I posted a good schematic and writeup that I found that can be used.
I have a 180tstat and on the freeway at ~75-80 the temp will run pretty rock steady at 185. It used to get higher, but that was because my radiator cap wasn't holding enough pressure.
I have a 180tstat and on the freeway at ~75-80 the temp will run pretty rock steady at 185. It used to get higher, but that was because my radiator cap wasn't holding enough pressure.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 220
My two cents. 
I bought my Meizere electric water pump for the horsepower gain. Looking for every last HP. Anyways to my surprise it helped in keeping my motor cooler. Here in SoCal I can now sit in summer traffic with the A/C on and the temperature does not go above 180 degrees. Cruising in the mountains the same. It does not overheat. All in all it was a pleasant surprise.
I bought my Meizere electric water pump for the horsepower gain. Looking for every last HP. Anyways to my surprise it helped in keeping my motor cooler. Here in SoCal I can now sit in summer traffic with the A/C on and the temperature does not go above 180 degrees. Cruising in the mountains the same. It does not overheat. All in all it was a pleasant surprise.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,925
From: Detroit
This argument has been drawn out for a long time. Its really up to your preference. I chose Meziere because they were local and almost all the impala guys run them with great results. Its not recommended that you run the water pump without a warning system, because it will eventually fail, and you might not glance at the temp gauge in time. If you're good with electronics I posted a good schematic and writeup that I found that can be used.
I have a 180tstat and on the freeway at ~75-80 the temp will run pretty rock steady at 185. It used to get higher, but that was because my radiator cap wasn't holding enough pressure.
I have a 180tstat and on the freeway at ~75-80 the temp will run pretty rock steady at 185. It used to get higher, but that was because my radiator cap wasn't holding enough pressure.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,146
From: Denton/Rockwall, TX
I put an electric waterpump on mine, and it started running about 195 or so on the highway, compared to the 180 it did with the mechanical. I have a 180 t-stat in it. Don't know why, but at idle it keeps the car just as cool as it used to. I like it, just dont skimp out on the wiring or you could run into some problems. Use a relay. I have the CSI/CSR. I chose it because I got the best deal on it at the time. I have a buddie who runs the Meziere and likes it also. I would say buy whichever you can get for a better price.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 631
From: LA/SD, CA
Circuit Description
This Circuit operates using an LM393 Voltage Comparitor to determine whether the current through the electric water pump has fallen below a specified threshold. The output of this comparitor (pin 1) is high whenever the + input voltage is greater than the - input voltage, and the output of the comparitor is low when the - input is greater than the + input to the device. The normal operation (No Pump Failure) of the circuit is designed so the comparitor output is high and both transistors are biased on. When the transistors are turned on the LED has current flowing through it and illuminates. The buzzer is seeing less than .3 volts with the transistors on and will not turn on.
In this circuit it is important to understand the function of the 60 milliohm (.06 ohm) resistor in the circuit. This resistor as a current sensor and can sometimes be referred to as a shunt resistor in this configuration. It is very important that the resistor is installed correctly to function properly. The resistor should be installed in the pump ground wire within a few inches of the actual ground termination lug. The sense wire to pin 3 of the comparitor needs to be installed on the pump side solder terminal of the shunt resistor so that it senses only the voltage dropped across the resistor.
When the normal operating current (5.8-6 Amps) is flowing through the shunt resistor it drops between 346-360 millivolts. This sense voltage is applied to pin 3 of the LM393. Pin 2 of the LM 393 is fixed by a voltage divider to 240 millivolts. The fixed voltage at pin 2 is the threshold for the alarm to trigger. When the sense voltage falls below 240 millivolts the comparitor output (pin 1) goes low. This action extinguishes the LED and the buzzer will sound. The comparitor threshold at pin 2 (240 millivolts) is set to trigger the alarm when pump current falls below 4 amps.
When Substituting in a 50 Milliohm Shunt Resistor
I have also substituted a 50 milliohm shunt resistor into the sensing circuit when I have not been able to find the 25 watt 60 milliohm resistors. When using a 50 milliohm shunt resistor the 5.6K ohm resistor in the voltage divider circuit should be replaced by a 6.8K ohm resistor to maintain the alarm threshold at 4 amps through the pump.
Parts List Notes
The .06 Ohm (60-milliohm) resistor in the coolant pump return will dissipate over 2 watts. A minimum power rating for this resistor should be 5 watts. But this may not be suitable for your installation as the only 5-watt resistors I found had axial leads, which seemed too small. I used a 25-watt metal case resistor that had generous soldering lugs for the 12 gage pump wires. I have found that the best resistors for this application are the metal cased wire wound power resistors.
The 390 Ohm resistor will dissipate close to ½ watt. The minimum power rating for this resistor should be 1 watt.
The remaining resistors in this circuit are ¼ watt 5% resistors.
The LED is speced to be a common red LED that drops 1.6 VDC with a nominal current of between 12-20 mA.
The Buzzer in this circuit is a piezo audio buzzer with the following specifications:
• Operating Voltage 3 - 16 VDC
• Rated Voltage 12 VDC
• Current Consumption 5.8 mA
• Resonant Frequency 4000 Hz
• Sound Pressure Level @ 10 cm Typical 86 dBA
It can be purchased online from Jameco Electronics as P/N 196357
Note: In later versions of this circuit I installed a couple of .01 µF Tantalum caps. One connected between the VCC to Ground, and the second between Pin 3 of the comparitor to ground. This should eliminate any noise from coupling into the circuit from the engine.
This Circuit operates using an LM393 Voltage Comparitor to determine whether the current through the electric water pump has fallen below a specified threshold. The output of this comparitor (pin 1) is high whenever the + input voltage is greater than the - input voltage, and the output of the comparitor is low when the - input is greater than the + input to the device. The normal operation (No Pump Failure) of the circuit is designed so the comparitor output is high and both transistors are biased on. When the transistors are turned on the LED has current flowing through it and illuminates. The buzzer is seeing less than .3 volts with the transistors on and will not turn on.
In this circuit it is important to understand the function of the 60 milliohm (.06 ohm) resistor in the circuit. This resistor as a current sensor and can sometimes be referred to as a shunt resistor in this configuration. It is very important that the resistor is installed correctly to function properly. The resistor should be installed in the pump ground wire within a few inches of the actual ground termination lug. The sense wire to pin 3 of the comparitor needs to be installed on the pump side solder terminal of the shunt resistor so that it senses only the voltage dropped across the resistor.
When the normal operating current (5.8-6 Amps) is flowing through the shunt resistor it drops between 346-360 millivolts. This sense voltage is applied to pin 3 of the LM393. Pin 2 of the LM 393 is fixed by a voltage divider to 240 millivolts. The fixed voltage at pin 2 is the threshold for the alarm to trigger. When the sense voltage falls below 240 millivolts the comparitor output (pin 1) goes low. This action extinguishes the LED and the buzzer will sound. The comparitor threshold at pin 2 (240 millivolts) is set to trigger the alarm when pump current falls below 4 amps.
When Substituting in a 50 Milliohm Shunt Resistor
I have also substituted a 50 milliohm shunt resistor into the sensing circuit when I have not been able to find the 25 watt 60 milliohm resistors. When using a 50 milliohm shunt resistor the 5.6K ohm resistor in the voltage divider circuit should be replaced by a 6.8K ohm resistor to maintain the alarm threshold at 4 amps through the pump.
Parts List Notes
The .06 Ohm (60-milliohm) resistor in the coolant pump return will dissipate over 2 watts. A minimum power rating for this resistor should be 5 watts. But this may not be suitable for your installation as the only 5-watt resistors I found had axial leads, which seemed too small. I used a 25-watt metal case resistor that had generous soldering lugs for the 12 gage pump wires. I have found that the best resistors for this application are the metal cased wire wound power resistors.
The 390 Ohm resistor will dissipate close to ½ watt. The minimum power rating for this resistor should be 1 watt.
The remaining resistors in this circuit are ¼ watt 5% resistors.
The LED is speced to be a common red LED that drops 1.6 VDC with a nominal current of between 12-20 mA.
The Buzzer in this circuit is a piezo audio buzzer with the following specifications:
• Operating Voltage 3 - 16 VDC
• Rated Voltage 12 VDC
• Current Consumption 5.8 mA
• Resonant Frequency 4000 Hz
• Sound Pressure Level @ 10 cm Typical 86 dBA
It can be purchased online from Jameco Electronics as P/N 196357
Note: In later versions of this circuit I installed a couple of .01 µF Tantalum caps. One connected between the VCC to Ground, and the second between Pin 3 of the comparitor to ground. This should eliminate any noise from coupling into the circuit from the engine.
Keep in mind this setup is for the CSI/R water pump. If you run the Meziere water pump, you may have to change the values of the voltage divider due to a higher current rating of the Meziere.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 631
From: LA/SD, CA
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 230
From: Katy, TX
Thanks, I never could get a straight answer on my 2nd question. It was one of those things that I had assumed would work. As for the housing mods i was more curious as to if they had updated their design or if it was still the same good old setup.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 244
From: CT
Wow
Thanks for the information! I'm a young guy and its hard to work full time and have a girlfriend and a LT1 those two are high maintenance sometimes, LOL. I will decide in a month or two on which one I'm gonna pick.
