No offense taken Bret.

I'm now hooked up with a guy that found this Cam Motions cam in his archives - he wasn't pleased with the 977 spring selection. The cam I have/had is a wolf in sheeps clothing. The cam/lifters are junk now so I'm overhauling the valvetrain from the ground up, while consulting with a few guys who have been there before.

You're right, the guy that put this thing together didn't do things how they should have been done, and it cost me some time and money. It was a big miscomunication from Cam Motions, to the intermediary, and down to me.

Ryan

 

I got the 977 springs with my -small- Comp solid roller and Endurex lifters. It goes to 6800 with no problems. I hope it`s not a "luck" kinda deal. I just got everything Comp recommended, right down to the spring seats. I do have .100" longer Ferreas too.
SStrokerAce, could the 977s be replaced with a Beehive?
-Chad

 

Chad: Jason Short and Ed Ventura both had success with 977s and a ~240ish comp solid roller. I think Ed went ~115-116 with the stock heads and daily drove the setup. Jason bought the setup from Ed and ran it for a summer!

They were using the Crane 11522s.

Nothing wrong with 977s, IMO. You might look into some beehives after 15k miles or so. Get with Bret on that.

Ryan

 

Chad, your application is exactly how the 977 springs should be used. I ran the 977s in one of my "experimental" solid roller motors and they do work well with the small Comp Cams solid rollers. You also have a good lifter for your setup. I would agree that your "system" is a very good match/combo.

Jason

 

Thanks for the info guys, It helps boost my confidence in the combo.

 

Bret, I agree with your points. However, its easy to make this situation bigger than it is/was. I say that because Ryan had already purchased the 977s at the time he built the motor (brand new). Knowing that the 977s work very well (mathmatically and in actuality) with the Comp smaller grinds, he asked his engine builder to get him a cam (mild overall) that would work with his setup. He left this in the hands of a *trusted* professional He had no way of knowing any details on his cam. The engine builder is the one to blame.

On the 943s....I too agree that there is alot of seat pressure applied by the spring force. 240lbs is getting into the "race" cagegory of springs. However, Cam Motions has recommended to me and others numerous times to run that spring. On paper, it looks like too much valvespring. But, I would much rather listen to my cam grinders recommendation for valvespring than to trust my "average" guy mathematics. The 943s loose signficant pressure after some miles as well....I observed 200lbs at 1.900" (IH) after 1700 miles and they were only down to 182-184lbs after 16,000 miles when I replaced them.

For you, the mathematics of valvetrain design is needed being a cam profiler yourself But, since that is not my profession, I just listen to the pros and those who have actually built similar engines to what I am building.

Jason

 

Jay,

I know your from upstate, but you don't have to pluralize things that don't need it when ya type! "Cam MotionS" Dammit Ryan you did it TOO!

Anyways.... the 943's after they broke in would be fine at 1.900" 185-200lbs would be about perfect here. The problem is we don't know if you really need all that pressure over the nose, the 550 rate on those springs definately wants you to start looking at stud girdles, shaft mounts and thick pushrods. 850lbs trying to bend that pushrod means you really need to focus on that, especially if you have valve float problems already.

Guys you really need to start looking at the rest of the specs of these cams. The .050, .200 and max lift of the lobes will tell you how much seated pressure and spring rate you need with these setups.

Chad,

To run the right beehives you would need +.100 longer valves. I'm betting with the 977 you only have .600 lift too, so they should work.

The thing that really gets me here is if you are only running .600" lift, why go thru all this trouble just to run a SR? Especially on a stock PCM.

Bret

 

Bret,
Yes I do have +.100 longer valves. And lift on the intake is .590" And as far going thru all such trouble, Heck I figured I gotta spend $ on new everything just to upgrade from my stock cam, and it had seemed alot of people were having reliablity issues with hyd. roller lifters; before the Beehives it seemed that max rpm was limited ( could I really run to 6800 with say, a Comp HR 230/236 like I can with my SR?); a solid could give better drivability than the HR w/o giving up any power; I know some things have changed (for the argument of HR)since I did mine. I am running a stock (TPIS tuned) PCM. I could be wrong in my assumptions! You definetly have more experience, and all of us here are very thankful.I`m learn`. I appreciate any info!
Thanks

 

Bret, I totally agree that for the effort of a solid roller you need to go bling or stay hydraulic. The reason I did that motor was because I had most of the parts laying around from past projects. The cam came in a shortblock I bought, so the only thing I had to buy was lifters/pushrods. It cost me less to run that solid setup than if I bought new springs, hyd lifters, pushrods, and a new cam.

When I used the 943s I did run a stud girdle, so that was not a concern of mine at the time. My mistake with that motor was running the 11522 lifter....I was just following what others were doing with success at the time. There were not alot of guys running solid rollers in LT1 street motors at that time, so the knowledge was quite slim on this issue. Also, it would have been nice if Crane actually had some guidelines for the 11522 lifter published. Live and learn.

Thanks for the lesson in pluralism I guess I never paid any attention if it was "motion" or "motions"

Jason

 

That's a good idea. However, I'll be the first to admit I don't know cams, and the more I learn the more I don't understand. I can't read a card and tell you how to spring the cam. The bottom line in this whole ordeal is that I payed someone to do the homework for me. Alot of guys give the advice to leave it to the experts. I paid Cam Motion AND a builder to tell me how to setup my motor. Money well spent .

Ryan

 

I'm not gettin on your case with the pluralisms but I had a old football coach who always called me "Bauers".... got on my nerves but I guess in football being made plural might not have been a bad thing.

For what it's worth you can do much higher than 6800rpm on a hyd, it's just usually not cheap! The LE3 setup on a 355 can do 7000rpm and make power up there. It's a pretty cut and dry setup too.

Bret

 

Just an update for anyone that was interested:

Promags will clear the 1.55" valvespring. The 977s I had were, in fact, not enough. Cam turned out pretty groovey (pun intended ).

Lesson learned: Make sure you have a cam card and do some research. Doesn't really matter who specs everything out for you - anyone can make a mistake.

Final thought is a line I heard from a seminar a while back...

In order to have the things everyone wants, you have to do the things most aren't willing to do.

Ryan