lt1 heads flow
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 38
lt1 heads flow
well got my heads back from the shop yesterday and here are the results tell me what youall think im no expert in this field
LIFT INTAKE EXHAUST
100 70 65
200 140 113
300 193 153
400 240 180
500 273 193
600 290 206
700 292 210
LIFT INTAKE EXHAUST
100 70 65
200 140 113
300 193 153
400 240 180
500 273 193
600 290 206
700 292 210
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,628
From: Pgh, PA
Re: lt1 heads flow
Those are some AWESOME high light numbers
That is pretty close to what LE3 heads flow I believe. Actually it may peak higher flow, but the low lift numbers are close from what I remember of the LE3 heads ...
Nice numbers.
That is pretty close to what LE3 heads flow I believe. Actually it may peak higher flow, but the low lift numbers are close from what I remember of the LE3 heads ...
Nice numbers.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,628
From: Pgh, PA
Re: lt1 heads flow
Yea, Who did these? If the numbers arent exadgerated by the porter, they kick ***.
What size valves?
How many CC on the intake runner?
How was the price?
PM me if you dont wanna post it all, Im just curious.
Thanks,
Joe
What size valves?
How many CC on the intake runner?
How was the price?
PM me if you dont wanna post it all, Im just curious.
Thanks,
Joe
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Re: lt1 heads flow
Originally Posted by HardcoreRM125
Yea, Who did these? If the numbers arent exadgerated by the porter, they kick ***.
What size valves?
How many CC on the intake runner?
How was the price?
PM me if you dont wanna post it all, Im just curious.
Thanks,
Joe
What size valves?
How many CC on the intake runner?
How was the price?
PM me if you dont wanna post it all, Im just curious.
Thanks,
Joe
they were done by the famoes llyod elliot its the le2 package and highly recommend him to anyone looking to a head and cam package
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,800
Re: lt1 heads flow
If you go to http://impalassforum.com/cgi-bin/ult...1;t=004387;p=4 you can read Lloyd's thoughts on headflow numbers.
Lloyd definetely has customers making impressive power I am not argueing his abilities, just thought after he posted this after I posted numbers he wouldn't mind it being aplied to his own work.
I just stumbled across this thread and here is some good info for most to read. . . . . .
Here is an email that I sent to a customer regarding his flow #'s on his TFS heads that I did for him . . . . . . it will help explain flow #'s a lil more and why you CAN'T judge heads by this.
As I tell EVERYONE about flow #'s . . . . .
flow benches vary so a different bench can show as much as 20 cfm higher/lower flow #'s.
flow #'s are what "sells" heads so EVERYONE inflates and lies about them making them impossible to compare EVEN IF all benched where
equal
flow #'s are a SMALL part of a working cylinder head and port shape and measurement in key areas are FAR more important. The flow #'s are just along for the ride.
I do not include flow charts for the reasons mentioned and a flow chart just gives other people a platform to judge other cylinder heads by and "assume" that the higher flowing cylinder head will make more power. Since people lie about the #'s and benches vary, you CAN'T compare 28" flow #'s.
Add in the fact that a 28" flow test is USELESS when finding out how a head works since the head will NOT see anything like a 28" flow test. A running engine receives air in gulps (not a steady suction) with constantly changing valve lift and depressions. The port is constantly seeing different things and these things are NOTHING as mild as a 28" flow test. A 28" flow test is at a steady suction with the valve at one lift point and the air is moving at a steady rate that is MUCH slower than it will on an engine. You have to develop your own tests to design a working port and that involves MUCH higher depressions to make the air move at speeds more like it will see in the engine. A port that flows well at 28" can turn pretty ugly when raising the depression 2-3 times that. It is tough finding someone with abench that can even handle this but when you find out what "works", the cars make some crazy power even though the 28" flow #'s are the same or even less.
There are some "valve popping" tests that are done to see how well the port recovers from valves opening/closing and depression going WAY up and down. This shows that the port has the proper taper and the air is making slow and steady velocity changes.
There are certain measurements that you want in certain areas to make the port "work" and "feed" certain cubvic inches to a certain RPM. A 28" flow test can show a port to work well but when doing the tests I have mentioned, you can find lots of problems.
A lot of the things mentioned here are not gonna show up at 28" and a few of these things actually flow LESS when testing at 28" even though the port is actually better. This just explains why a 28" flow test is USELESS other that for sales propaganda. 99% of the public will look at a flow sheet showing better 28" flow #'s than my heads and think they will make more power but these other tests would show a different story and then when bolted on the car, you would definitely see a different story.
FWIW, the flow #'s from my LT1 castings with 2.00/1.056 valves are in the 275 range on the intake but anyone that read this post and understands any part of it will understand that this # means "nothing".
. . . . . and another one wheer a customer asked it ported LT1 castings are better than TFS heads for his set up and also asked what how the average person can compare heads since flow #'s seem to be the only thing given . . . . . .
As far as comparing results of the heads mentioned, they all have different characteristics and the right choice will be based on budget, gear, stall, cubic inch, RPM, etc. The TFS heads (handported with larger valves installed with a GOOD valve job) will make the most HP but might not actually accelerate the car best depending on the exact set up.
As far as comparing ported heads, the average person can't judge them and the ONLY way to compare them is to do a back to back test bewteen the two heads and see what the dyno and track shows. Most do not have the budget to do this and only wanna buy one set of heads so they wanna make a good choice the first time.
Anyone can put a sales pitch on their head and make it seem like the best heads ever produced. A truly "good" head will sell itself from the results others are getting from it on comparable set ups.
28" flow #'s, runner volumes, swirl #'s along with terms like "high velocity, low lift flow #'s, mid lift #'s, reverse flowed, chambers reshaped to promote a more efficient burn and less detonation, etc, etc" are just buzz words used to sell the heads and these words can be used on ANY head since the consumer has no way of confirming these things and if so, what are they even looking for in these tests.
I am not saying these tests are useless but how can the average person verify the results, how do you know what to compare them to, what are you even measureing and what effect does it have on how the engine is gonna run?
People that call up and want a "high velocity" head from me will get asked "What kinda FPS are you looking for? Where are you measureing it at?" They then realize they might not be armed with enough info in these areas.
I am not sure why you wanna speed up the air in a 23 degree SB Chevy head with standard pushrod location and cause turbulence to happen at a sooner depression but some think they want a "higher velocity" head. The "higher velocity" heads are usually the ones with less portwork done, LOL and end up making less power although since it is just a term used to sell heads, a head that is sold as a "high velocity" head might actually make good power since it usually is just a sales term and not anything to do with the velocity in the head.
The people that really understand what makes a head "work" are either doing their own heads or are paying people like Trevor Johnson or Air Flow Development to do their heads. The people with out that knowlede or with out that budget are forced to weed through the crap and hopefully make a good choice. Just find the best porter that you can afford and that you trust and heave them do the work for you. If you do not have a porter picked yet, just base your opinion on how similarly built cars perform with their heads.
Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com
Here is an email that I sent to a customer regarding his flow #'s on his TFS heads that I did for him . . . . . . it will help explain flow #'s a lil more and why you CAN'T judge heads by this.
As I tell EVERYONE about flow #'s . . . . .
flow benches vary so a different bench can show as much as 20 cfm higher/lower flow #'s.
flow #'s are what "sells" heads so EVERYONE inflates and lies about them making them impossible to compare EVEN IF all benched where
equal
flow #'s are a SMALL part of a working cylinder head and port shape and measurement in key areas are FAR more important. The flow #'s are just along for the ride.
I do not include flow charts for the reasons mentioned and a flow chart just gives other people a platform to judge other cylinder heads by and "assume" that the higher flowing cylinder head will make more power. Since people lie about the #'s and benches vary, you CAN'T compare 28" flow #'s.
Add in the fact that a 28" flow test is USELESS when finding out how a head works since the head will NOT see anything like a 28" flow test. A running engine receives air in gulps (not a steady suction) with constantly changing valve lift and depressions. The port is constantly seeing different things and these things are NOTHING as mild as a 28" flow test. A 28" flow test is at a steady suction with the valve at one lift point and the air is moving at a steady rate that is MUCH slower than it will on an engine. You have to develop your own tests to design a working port and that involves MUCH higher depressions to make the air move at speeds more like it will see in the engine. A port that flows well at 28" can turn pretty ugly when raising the depression 2-3 times that. It is tough finding someone with abench that can even handle this but when you find out what "works", the cars make some crazy power even though the 28" flow #'s are the same or even less.
There are some "valve popping" tests that are done to see how well the port recovers from valves opening/closing and depression going WAY up and down. This shows that the port has the proper taper and the air is making slow and steady velocity changes.
There are certain measurements that you want in certain areas to make the port "work" and "feed" certain cubvic inches to a certain RPM. A 28" flow test can show a port to work well but when doing the tests I have mentioned, you can find lots of problems.
A lot of the things mentioned here are not gonna show up at 28" and a few of these things actually flow LESS when testing at 28" even though the port is actually better. This just explains why a 28" flow test is USELESS other that for sales propaganda. 99% of the public will look at a flow sheet showing better 28" flow #'s than my heads and think they will make more power but these other tests would show a different story and then when bolted on the car, you would definitely see a different story.
FWIW, the flow #'s from my LT1 castings with 2.00/1.056 valves are in the 275 range on the intake but anyone that read this post and understands any part of it will understand that this # means "nothing".
. . . . . and another one wheer a customer asked it ported LT1 castings are better than TFS heads for his set up and also asked what how the average person can compare heads since flow #'s seem to be the only thing given . . . . . .
As far as comparing results of the heads mentioned, they all have different characteristics and the right choice will be based on budget, gear, stall, cubic inch, RPM, etc. The TFS heads (handported with larger valves installed with a GOOD valve job) will make the most HP but might not actually accelerate the car best depending on the exact set up.
As far as comparing ported heads, the average person can't judge them and the ONLY way to compare them is to do a back to back test bewteen the two heads and see what the dyno and track shows. Most do not have the budget to do this and only wanna buy one set of heads so they wanna make a good choice the first time.
Anyone can put a sales pitch on their head and make it seem like the best heads ever produced. A truly "good" head will sell itself from the results others are getting from it on comparable set ups.
28" flow #'s, runner volumes, swirl #'s along with terms like "high velocity, low lift flow #'s, mid lift #'s, reverse flowed, chambers reshaped to promote a more efficient burn and less detonation, etc, etc" are just buzz words used to sell the heads and these words can be used on ANY head since the consumer has no way of confirming these things and if so, what are they even looking for in these tests.
I am not saying these tests are useless but how can the average person verify the results, how do you know what to compare them to, what are you even measureing and what effect does it have on how the engine is gonna run?
People that call up and want a "high velocity" head from me will get asked "What kinda FPS are you looking for? Where are you measureing it at?" They then realize they might not be armed with enough info in these areas.
I am not sure why you wanna speed up the air in a 23 degree SB Chevy head with standard pushrod location and cause turbulence to happen at a sooner depression but some think they want a "higher velocity" head. The "higher velocity" heads are usually the ones with less portwork done, LOL and end up making less power although since it is just a term used to sell heads, a head that is sold as a "high velocity" head might actually make good power since it usually is just a sales term and not anything to do with the velocity in the head.
The people that really understand what makes a head "work" are either doing their own heads or are paying people like Trevor Johnson or Air Flow Development to do their heads. The people with out that knowlede or with out that budget are forced to weed through the crap and hopefully make a good choice. Just find the best porter that you can afford and that you trust and heave them do the work for you. If you do not have a porter picked yet, just base your opinion on how similarly built cars perform with their heads.
Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com
) on the great heads.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,628
From: Pgh, PA
Re: lt1 heads flow
That is awesome.
If you follow the guys on this board, the ones using newer LE heads just keep getting better and better. The new set ups run faster, idle better, and are more streetable. Granted much of that goes to Bret getting better cams now too, but LE just keeps on amazing me with what him and Bret are doing with stock castings ... Its really impressive. And it makes the gap to justifying the price for TFS keep getting bigger and bigger.
If you follow the guys on this board, the ones using newer LE heads just keep getting better and better. The new set ups run faster, idle better, and are more streetable. Granted much of that goes to Bret getting better cams now too, but LE just keeps on amazing me with what him and Bret are doing with stock castings ... Its really impressive. And it makes the gap to justifying the price for TFS keep getting bigger and bigger.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 192
Re: lt1 heads flow
Stunning numbers. Makes my LE2 (LT1) heads with basically 270(in)/195(ex) look turdish 
Sarcasm aside, I'm quite happy with my LE2/BB cam combo. It has challenged my tuning skills below 1500rpm but otherwise just shreds the hides.
Hopefully Lloyd will max out his talents when I send him my LT4 heads for my upcoming 396 setup.
Sarcasm aside, I'm quite happy with my LE2/BB cam combo. It has challenged my tuning skills below 1500rpm but otherwise just shreds the hides.Hopefully Lloyd will max out his talents when I send him my LT4 heads for my upcoming 396 setup.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,509
From: Red Oak Texas
Re: lt1 heads flow
I keep learning more and more tricks every few months and as a few mentioned, I stumbled across a VERY important change several months back and another VERY important one a few weeks back.
As far as flow #'s go, you can see my take on that in the above post. Most people are happy with a $1300 set of heads that have a flow sheet in the 270/190 range and come with Ferrea 6000 valves and bee hive springs. If you have a set of heads that I have done in the past 5 months, you just need to take them to a local shop and se what "their" bench says. .
They can tell you if they flow 270 cfm, 290 cfm or somewhere in between. You will NOT be disapointed.
Regardless, they know what a stock LT1 and the typical ported LT1 head flows on "their" bench so they can confirm they are a good flowing head and will be blown away when you tell them the price.
A higher depression test would show the port is SUPER quiet and remains stable under these conditions. Some people are amazed that the flow #'s keep climbing after .550 lift (and .600) and while some think this is useless, anyone that understands much of what was in the above post by 96Capricemgr will surely agree that it is.
Not everyone inflates their #'s on the flow sheet provided and I have had a few emails and calls from people (most on this board) wandering why they are getting much HIGHER flow #'s from my LT1 stuff than the flow sheet provided.
I am about a month away from a price increase and the heads will start coming with flow sheets that are closer to their "actual" flow. A few people on here know that I have been sand bagging my flow charts for a while. The new things that I do to the heads are taking alot more time to do and therefore a price increase is required but just keep watching the dyno #'s with my stuff and they will more than warrant the extra $100.
Once again, flow #'s are just along for the ride and the way the car performs is the main thing to be concerned with. There are plenty of people that can confirm that they are happy with the way their cars run (not only with the flow sheet) with my stuff.
Lloyd
As far as flow #'s go, you can see my take on that in the above post. Most people are happy with a $1300 set of heads that have a flow sheet in the 270/190 range and come with Ferrea 6000 valves and bee hive springs. If you have a set of heads that I have done in the past 5 months, you just need to take them to a local shop and se what "their" bench says.
. They can tell you if they flow 270 cfm, 290 cfm or somewhere in between. You will NOT be disapointed.
Regardless, they know what a stock LT1 and the typical ported LT1 head flows on "their" bench so they can confirm they are a good flowing head and will be blown away when you tell them the price.
A higher depression test would show the port is SUPER quiet and remains stable under these conditions. Some people are amazed that the flow #'s keep climbing after .550 lift (and .600) and while some think this is useless, anyone that understands much of what was in the above post by 96Capricemgr will surely agree that it is.
Not everyone inflates their #'s on the flow sheet provided and I have had a few emails and calls from people (most on this board) wandering why they are getting much HIGHER flow #'s from my LT1 stuff than the flow sheet provided.
I am about a month away from a price increase and the heads will start coming with flow sheets that are closer to their "actual" flow. A few people on here know that I have been sand bagging my flow charts for a while. The new things that I do to the heads are taking alot more time to do and therefore a price increase is required but just keep watching the dyno #'s with my stuff and they will more than warrant the extra $100.
Once again, flow #'s are just along for the ride and the way the car performs is the main thing to be concerned with. There are plenty of people that can confirm that they are happy with the way their cars run (not only with the flow sheet) with my stuff.
Lloyd
Last edited by NightTrain66; May 2, 2006 at 09:02 AM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Re: lt1 heads flow
i will personally vouch for llyods work with anyone who douts it. hes very consered for his customer's satisfaction. and helps you out when in need as he did for me. thanks llyod
carlos maldonado
edinburg tx.
carlos maldonado
edinburg tx.
