There's a relative large thread I started a while back... has to do with both my LE cams being off. Not their fault, as they're ground by Comp.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...ght=degree+cam

 

Javier- your post looks interesting. Il have to read it when Im out of work. Thanks.

 

I have read that about 9 out of 10 people do not degree a cam when installing it. When istalling it dot to dot usually gets you to within 2 degrees.

So now my question for the LE experts out there, how close am I with the way that I installed it dot to dot?

I ahve also read that the cams are degreed when they are ground. Is my LE2 like that?

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but it is my understanding that degreeing the cam when you install it double checks the specifications the cam was supposed to be ground with. If when degreeing it in you notice it is off, you can advance or retard it to get it where it needs to be. Like I said I'm not sure if that is totally right so.......

 

Your checking for accuracy in the manufacturing process as compared to your cam card.

The cam always gets installed "dot to dot" whether you degree it or not.

My cam was like I said 2.5-3* advanced when installing dot to dot. I corrected it with the offset crank key and I'm now within 1* of the correct spec per the cam card.

I've had an LE2 and an LE3 and both were off.. it's not a matter of LE-anything, it's a matter of comp, or your timing chain manufacturer having ground it correctly, as well as other factors such as the keycut in your crank snout, etc.

You cannot degree a cam by itself, the cam is ground by a computer driven machine, it should be right.. but who knows?

That's not to say I've degree'd every cam I've installed. I didn't check my 224/230 cc503 back in the day and was fine, and know of someone else who did also... was there the possiblity of gaining a bit more power by having checked it? I guess I'll never know.

In the end it's up to you, your car is already assembled and seems to be running well. If you're happy with it, and the car is not having any issues with tuning, I probably wouldn't mess with it. If you want to make sure you have every last bit of HP go ahead and check it. If it's off you'll be pulling the timing chain and either using an offset crank key or a bushing on the dowel pin.

 

Well, I just want to be fair to both Bret and Lloyd that it is not their product not producing the hp and tq they advertised, but rather a cam that is ground incorrectly etc.

I think Ill leave it for the time being, I might check it just for the heck of it and then report back as long as all I have to do is pull the timing chain cover off and thats it, but if the top of the motor has to be dissassembled, then Ill leave it until winter or so.

 

FWIW,

As much as I would like the cams all to come correct, it's just not cost effective to check each one. I have thought about a Cam Dr setup and checking every cam, but that would add $30 to every cam that goes out the door. Customers don't percieve that as a worth it when the cams from Lloyd already come $100 more than other places, once they run into a issue and then that $30 would be worth it to them.

I do tell Comp exactly how I want it ground, the lobes are placed at the right LSA and the lobes are very accurate, it's the dam dowel pin placement that screws up the placement of the ICL (which is advance or retard), the CNC Okuma cam grinder doesn't place that thing. The lobes also have to be ground within the tolerances of the heat treatment case and placed accordingly so they don't wear out.

I've had cams come to me that are perfect, and others that I have sent back that are 5° retarded because the engine builder installing it caught the error from Comp.

I recomend that you degree the cam because for the extra $crilla that you are paying you should make sure it's installed properly to get all of your moneys worth out of the setup.

Bret

 

Ill be checking the degree of the cam realtively soon. Ill report my findings.

 

The cam that I installed in my 383 came up 5 degrees retarded with a new $90 dbl roller chain. I pulled the cam and installed it in a stock bottom end with stock GM chain and chacked it and it was riight on.

I just installed it in my 383 and used an offset cam bushing to end up 1 degree anvanced.

Lots of variables and I was not gonna check ALL of them. . . . .

Was my 383 crank key way 5 degrees off?
Was the stock GM crank key way 5 degrees off?
Were they both off?
Were the cranks fine and the new dbl roller chain off?
Was the stock chain off?
Were they both off?
Were they ALL off a degree or two?

Regardless of "what" the problem was, the "fix" was to use the parts I was gonna run (383 crank, dbl roller chain and that cam) and then use offset crank bushings to get the correct ICL.

Lloyd

 

Yeah Ditto... I've had Timing Chains be the problem as well. It seems to be the lower cost double rollers are usually the problem. Good catch.

Bret

 

Im using a brand new Cloyes Double roller timing chain. Everything on my setup is new, except for the bottom end.

 

That might be it then.

 

I plan on doing this kit to my car soon, ( especially since I paid off my car today) and I just listened your idle video. You gave me hope, I have the exact exhaust as you and damn that thing sounds wicked!!!

 

The Cloyes chain was recommended to me by Lloyd over the GM heavy duty double roller to save me some money. Now I guess that the chain is not so good, I wish I spent the extra few bucks.

Its amazing how a timing chain can screw things up like this, but is it really the fault of the timing chain? Are the Cloyes timing chain that inferior?

 

I've seen them be off and sometimes be on. It's a nice piece but if you don't degree the cam you can't really tell if its in there right or not. You don't get something for nothing so a lower cost TC will take more time to degree in while a better one would probably be spot on. I run the Cloyes Hex-A-Just stuff because I can put it on and have the cam degreed correctly in 20mins, rather than a few hours of monkeying around.

Bret