Plugs and wires are a bastard to change. Passenger side O2 sensor is a PITA to change also.

 

Well it's an american car so it's always leaking some fluid somewhere - my rear end is doing it right now... however the car never burns a drop of oil and it's got 105k miles on it and I'm not the original owner (car was leased before me so I know it was probably abused). I've had it since 70k miles and do a lot of interstate driving on it back and forth from college. The only thing that broke was the clutch.. the disk actually looked good but was oil soaked - the seal on the input shaft of the trans was leaking and allowed trans fluid to get by and run down the input shaft onto the disk thereby ruining the disk... I had the trans rebuilt when I had the seal replaced (reverse synchos gave me a bit of difficulty but the trans was in otherwise good shape). Right now I think I've got a tie rod end going on the pass side since the steering has a little slop in it to the right and the right wheel has some lateral play in it.. anyways, aside from these problems and the leaky pinion seal (around the differential/pumpkin shaped thing around the rear axle - sorry don't know how car savy you are) the car has actually been pretty reliable.. a lot of people have problems with the optispark (the shoddy but expensive equivalent of a distributor) but I have yet to experience this. Plugs (with the stock headers) are a royal b!tch to change - I never tried changing them until I put the hooker longtubes on so I cannot speak from experience - but others complain about that regularly.. so in that sense plug maintence can be a nightmare especially when compared to a dohc inline 4 setup. Mechanically I'd say the car is pretty solid (though prone to rattle especially if you have T-tops - fixed with subframe connectors). If you don't take it drag racing and don't abuse it constantly I'd say it's definately a reliable car. Really it's not any worse to work on that some imports.. I've worked on a few and I think the designers had small asian people with small asian hands in mind when then designed those cars.. some of those spaces were insanely tight.. but the fbody has some tight spaces too. Really what I think should be your concern is gas prices.. these cars take 93 octane which is going for about $2.20 now and they don't get great mileage especially when you rag on it.. maybe 20 city and 28 hwy/interstate. The bottom line is, the more power the car makes the more likely things are to break.. and if you start modding it to push it beyond what the gm designers thought of then more things are going to break more often.. and if you race it every weekend then stuff is gonna break.. and if you race it around town constantly then stuff is gonna break (and you'll probably end up dead). So I guess you have to think about how you're gonna drive it and how much track time it's gonna see and if you plan on modding it much.

Definately don't get a thirdgen.. my bud at school has an old firebird.. maybe an 89 or 91 (a later model) and that thing is constantly breaking.. the braket that held the tensioner pully just broke off one day the alternator goes.. starter goes.. thing runs bad.. idles bad.. has a million and one vacuum lines to deal with.. and the guy even tries to take car of it.. I spend most of my time helping him diagnose/fix it. Oh it is a V6 not a V8 though. But the thing just rattles like something awful (and I thought my car was bad).. the exhaust now has a leak in it somehwere too. The driver seat back broke so he now has a pillow stuffed in the back seat to try and prop the thing up.. I told him a broom handle would be better seriously though.. I feel bad for him.. and he even says one day he'll drop a V8 in it.. yeah right, the car will shake itself apart before then... it's like the poor thing wants to die but he just won't let it.. so sad.

Anways, it's hard to compare these cars to imports.. they are not made to be sports cars.. they are econoboxes.. thus they are more reliable, get better gas mileage, and are no where near as fast. Really it's like comparing apples to oranges.. if a car puts down about twice the power of another is it really fair to expect the same or better reliability given price constraints (the camaro was never an expensive sports car - that's left for the vette). These cars put down more power so the parts are put under more stress.. plus the people who buy these cars buy them cause they're fast and so they rag them out (that's what they're made for).. most people who buy an ultra reliable accord don't rag the thing out the way Fbody enthusiats rag their cars out.

Whatever you do though.. do yourself a favor and don't buy a mustang

edit: Heatmaker.. your posts are great.. good laugh but oh so true
Also, I'd encourage you to learn how to work on your car yourself (this forum will help you every step of the way). There are too many horror stories of people getting ripped off at dealerships or, worse still, cars coming back in worse shape then when they went in. These cars just beg the yahoo at your local garage to go for a joy ride and break something. You definately can do the routine mantainence on this car yourself (plugs, wires, oil, trans fluid, differential gear oil, coolant flush, air filter change).. if you are unwilling to learn (it's not hard) then don't plan on getting an Fbody.

 

The 95+ Opti's are vented, so they fail less, but they fail none the less. And it's not like they just fail every 4000 miles or something. My stock one went almost 90,000 before it crapped out, i probably will never have to change it again as long as i own the car.

As far as a tune up goes, the biggest hurdle are the spark plugs, because they are almost unreachable with stock manifolds. You take care of these and you'll be golden though.

You cannot replace an Optispark. You need to have one, in some form or another. There is no other system. But, like i said, it's hit or miss, and you can always get a vented one int he event that it goes out. They run about 300 for the part, and are a bitch to install. You need to remove almost everything to get to it.

Any car is going to have its expensive breakdowns though. The LT1 is a very reliable engine if you treat it right, like you sound like you would.

 

Thought I would give you my .02... I have a 93Z that I recently purchased and also have a 94 integra gsr. I grew up around f bodies (family and friends). I have had the integra for 5 years and it has about 190K and everything is still going strong. The biggest thing I have had to replace is the radiator and starter and thats it other than regular stuff like pads, etc. Many of my friends and families f bodies did have some problems, many more than I have had with my integra. I'm not saying that it is all do due quality, but I think there is some difference in the reliability department. I tell you all this because I know at 17 I didn't really think about things like insurance, gas, or repairs. If you are going to go with a v-8 though get a camaro, mustangs (especially the ones in your price range) can't even compare to a Z-28. I would say get the f body only if you have mechanical abilities and are able to fix it yourself because if you can't then you will get raped out the a$$ for repairs. Good luck with the decision!

 

I got mine when I was 17 a little over 2 years ago now. Its been a gret time and I love my Z28. They can be troublesome to repair but its not as bad as some people make it out to be. Try to pick up a 95 f-body if possible....OBDI PCM and vented opti, the best of both worlds.

 

Ok, first off don't listen to Heatmaker. He's an import guy at heart.

As to your questions... yeah, LT1 cars generally do require a bit more maintenance than your basic, driven by your mom Honda car, but they are alot more fun. Plus, the ladies like em.

Insurance isn't that bad as long as you don't do anything stupid like 80 in a 40. Common sense is key here.

The biggest draw back, IMO, would be the need to use premium gas. They cars run better with it, but it hurts putting $30+ into the tank when you stop at the pumps.

Other than that, most other problems are just general maintenance, until the mods start.

 

lol i don't even look at the pump anymore. I just slide my card and pump, pull the pump out when its done and then go... i don;t look at the gallons or the price. Too depressing hahaha

 

I didn't know these cars used premium gas. If I used regular unleaded, what would happen? Would it give me running problems or would it just not be as "fast"?

This is one reason I was just considering getting one with the 3.8 V6. Obviously not as good, but better than your average Honda, and probably a lot cheaper to keep up. I don't do any racing anyway, so I can get by with the V6.

 

The LT1 engine uses a 10.4:1 compression ratio so premium generally works better. You get less knock retard and the computer can give the motor more timing so it runs better.

 

Honestly, I would suggest not getting a V6 camaro. You will always be asking yourself, What if I had a Z... What if I had a 6 speed.... What if I.... ect ect. Don't get a v6 camaro. It is a sports car. Get a V-8.

As to premium gas:

I have been running the cheapest gas I can get (87 octane) since day one and I have never had any problems. The LT-1, much like the LS-1 has a very high compression ration compared to most cars and imports. The benefits of using a higher octane rated gas is that it will burn more cleanly, and produce less "knock" which will retard the timing, thus decreasing preformance. I don't think this is a problem on a stock car, but if you get into mods, especially Loud Headers/Exhaust, then definatly make the switch to 93 unleaded.

 

Our cars run an ultra high compression ratio which encourages detonation and preignition. Volatility of the gas is key here(octane rating indicates volatility BTW) .. if the gas is too volatile it will ignite unpredictably under high load situations (you mashing the gas or going up a hill)... preignition is especially bad but so is detonation and both will easily destroy an engine. These cars are equipped with a knock sensor because GM realized how bad high compression + agressive ignition timing can be for an engine especially when joe blow thinks "hey, GM was just kidding about that 93 octane stuff.. 87 is fine". Any yahoo who relies on the knock sensor to detect knock and save his engine by retarding timing is begging for disaster.

The difference in gas prices adds up but I'd never consider running 87 in my Z, a few dollars saved here and there is not worth the risk.

I know I'll probably get flamed for this but... don't buy a V6.. it's all show and no go. Like GM neutured a perfectly good Z28 by putting that stupid RS badge on it. The worst thing is, when I talk to the laymen they're like "a Z28, what's that?" it's a f*cking camaro in true form that's what it is you goddam idiot. They always think of all those V6 camaros and firebirds running around and assume that mine is just like that.. but no, mine will stop any one of them and sound good doing it. Sometimes I feel like all these V6 fbodys running around ruin the reputation of my car with the general public. Besides, if you get a V6 you're not getting it to go fast so you might as well get any other vehicle that doesn't go fast but is reliable (import).

 

If the LT1 was taken care of it will run like new way past 100k miles....Ive had 2 and they were both reliable

 

I guess you guys are right, this is what I was thinking originally...if you're going to get a Camaro why get one that isn't any more powerful than a regular family car?

I can probably afford the gas, I can afford the insurance, and chances are if I don't get a lemon I can afford the repairs, and I can learn how to work on it myself. I guess the real dilemma is finding one that isn't beat to hell, and deciding, sure I can take on an extra $0.20/gal for gas, and extra maintenance and repairs, but is it worth it.

That is a decision only I can make, and thanks for everybody's help.

However one question still remains unanswered, ironically enough the first one I asked-- in comparison to other cars, how much are replacement parts in the event that something would go bad? ex. I was looking at a Lexus SC400, nice car, it has a V8, and it's RWD...but the replacement parts are so insanely expensive, like $400 for a key, $600 for a window motor, etc...that it just is impossible for me to buy one.

How does the Camaro do in this respect?

 

The Camaro isn't too awfully bad for replacement parts, especially when compared to a Lexus or something. Some parts are expensive, some aren't. It's a GM product, which generally means parts are reasonable in availability, because the same parts are used in so many different vehicles, and thus won't cost as much. However, a lot of the Camaro parts are Camaro specific.

You also get the beauty of the engine design with the LT1. Chevrolet has used the old school small blocks forever now (since about 1955?), and it's cool to beat up on a newer mustang or rice with an ancient engine design. Although the LT1 is actually a second-generation smallblock, with it's reverse-coolant flow, optispark ignition, etc., it's still more or less a small block chevrolet.

Keep in mind that performance parts are quite a bit more expensive than regular parts, like tires will set you back a good deal, if you get Z rated rubber (tested to be able to sustain higher speeds/temperatures) and your tires and other parts, like brake pads, will wear out faster. The optispark can be a real hassle, but if you use your head and take your time, no shortcuts, it isn't at all something that would be impossible to change on your own. A major reason for the optispark going out is its placement. Water or moisture will kill it, period. It sits directly under the water pump, which has a weep hole on the bottom that will start to drip coolant before it fails. If it drips on the opti, it can easily cause it to crap the bed on you.

Plugs and wires are pretty difficult to change, especially with stock exhaust manifolds, and the engine compartment is generally cramped and hard to get around in. As stated before, it's very hard on these engines to run them hot, because of the different expansion rates of the aluminum heads/iron block, and headgaskets will fail if you let it overheat, as stated before. The rear end is also a weak link of the z28s, but generally hold up ok as long as you aren't launching on sticky tires with a manual transmission.

All in all a z28 is an extremely fun car that will turn heads and break pretty much whatever speed limit you want in the U.S. If you can't work on cars, or are iffy on your desire to learn how, a z is not the car for you. If you are pretty mechanically inclined and don't mind putting forth some effort and cash, go for it, just be aware that a Z28 will probably be the greatest strain on your budget at 17, and you'll have to decide whether or not you're willing to pay for it.

If you do decide to get a Z, please be somewhat responsible, because this being your first car, meaning you probably aren't that experienced with sports cars, you can get maimed or killed very easily. I'm not saying you will or it's inevitible or anything, but if you don't excercise a lot of caution, a car of this nature will get you into more trouble than you can get out of in a hurry, probably before you know it. All it takes is a slick patch of wet pavement and a tap of the throttle to send the back end loose and lose control of the car, who knows where you'll wind up. So, basically, you don't have to baby it, but be sensible and easy with it until you learn how the car, and sports cars in general, act and handle under various conditions, especially in rain, and snow and ice, well, I don't even want to go there.

One more thing, if you get one please don't be all bigheaded about it in front of people with lesser cars, unless they're bragging about how fast their car is and they can dust you, etc, then you can put them in their place, but don't be a jerk about it, keep the good name of the camaro world.

Well, good luck in your decision, and I hope this helps a little, sorry it was so long.

 

What the guy above said. =)

I got my own car, camaro as my first paid for car, before I drove a new altima and a ford taurus. By all means if you have to travel elsewhere, and live in a wintery climat, it would be wise to have a beater as well. Opti is a problem, but on my 93z, I am second owner, have not had any problems yet, knock on wood.