how hard is it to hit 10s
02-11-2006, 01:15 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Petaluma CA
Posts: 280
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
Originally Posted by 1racerdude
Really can't see how ya are going to build a 10 second engine N/A for a 3500lb car for 4-7000 dollars... More like 15-18,000 dollars for parts. This don't include the wheels tires and chassis and 9" and drive shaft.Built several for customers and have never done it for less,but have spent more. $7,000 won't buy the heads,intake,injectors, cam and valve train.
02-11-2006, 02:06 AM
#17
Banned
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LA (lower Alabama)
Posts: 6,661
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
Originally Posted by Purplemaroz28
i did say some interior removing at the end. but yea my estimations were low. but it gives an idea of what it takes. and there are a number of hidden cost that no man can ever forsee
It's just that some have big ideas and small pockets and when they get to doing a N/A set up they fall WAY short of their goal because the budget was not big enough,OR wind up gutting the car to try and run the number.
Ya could take out all 4 seats but ya put the weight right back in with a 10 point molly roll bar. Sooooo unless ya gut the dash,lexan windows,no carpet and no creature comforts and stuff like that it's hard to get one below 3300lbs
02-11-2006, 02:14 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: pa
Posts: 1,991
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
good example is 572.19 fwhp in a 3000 lb car will run 10.10
i have been a lousy 11.61 @ 118 mph n/a with everything that could go wrong did combo was 396,13.8:1 compression,cc306, crane gold 1.6 rr ,ported lt1's,bbk ceramic shortys, open borla ,58mm,36lb injectors,255/50/16 bfg dr's on stock wheels, 3600 lbs , eibach stiff *** pro kit 3.42 10 bolt on its last leg and babying it to a 2.12 60ft then punching it bladder in the fpr was dumping fuel motor would not clean up, burned through two plug boots, fluid leaking from rear, chassis flexing trying to twist the car it was horriable
i have been a lousy 11.61 @ 118 mph n/a with everything that could go wrong did combo was 396,13.8:1 compression,cc306, crane gold 1.6 rr ,ported lt1's,bbk ceramic shortys, open borla ,58mm,36lb injectors,255/50/16 bfg dr's on stock wheels, 3600 lbs , eibach stiff *** pro kit 3.42 10 bolt on its last leg and babying it to a 2.12 60ft then punching it bladder in the fpr was dumping fuel motor would not clean up, burned through two plug boots, fluid leaking from rear, chassis flexing trying to twist the car it was horriable
Last edited by amean94ta; 02-11-2006 at 02:17 AM.
02-11-2006, 11:24 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: pa
Posts: 1,991
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
Originally Posted by marshall93z
11.61 @ 118 isn't lousy!
i'd like to go pro and campaign this car someday if not i'll sell it and build a top dragster
02-12-2006, 04:51 AM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Red Oak Texas
Posts: 1,509
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
ALOT will depend on the cars set up. . . . . . . .
LIGHT car (3100 lbs with driver)
4000 (or larger) stall
steep gears
good suspension (1.3X 60 ft)
KOOKS or Hedman 1 7/8 headers
obviously everything else like CAI, bigger TB, 36 lb inj, GOOD tuning (maybe even DFI set up), etc, etc.
Some thing like this can run high 10's with (estimated) 425 RWHP.
If we are talking about a FULL weight (3700 lb with driver) 97 T/A with T-tops, leather, elec seats, windows, A/C, 12 disc CD changer, we will need 60-75 more HP (maybe even more, ???) to run the same ET.
What is more difficult is when you add the restrictions of a streetable (to most people) converetr and gears in the full weight car and have to worry about the TQ curve at a lower RPM and being more streetable. Dealing with 3.42 gears, 2800 stall, 1 3/4 headers, 1.70 60 ft, etc makes things more difficult. It gets tough to run the same ET with all that weight AND a milder cam that has to work with milder gears, stall and still be drivable.
If the first car mentioned could run a 10.70, the second car would be in the 11.70 range. Weight difference and 60 ft are a BIG part of that.
If we are talking about a full weight car that can only get a 1.70 to 1.80 60 ft, we better be making some SERIOUS HP to ever see a 10 second pass. The 60 ft is ALL about how well the CAR is working (gear, stall, traction, suspension) and has very little to do with power being made. Get the 60 ft down FIRST. Stock head and cam guys are getting 1.5X 60 fts with well set up cars and some are even better than that.
The two car "set ups" listed above are two "extremes" on each side of the spectrum but it gives people an idea about how difficult it is if dealing with a street car. Most peoples set up will fall in between these two examples and most are better off focusing on 60 ft, gear, stall, traction, etc and then getting heads and cam that will propel the car best with that set up. Some might not be able to afford evereything to run a 10 second pass and some might not be willing to sacrifice everything on a full weight, street driven car to get in the 10's. Some people do not wanna lighten the car up enough to raech a 10 second pass and some are cool with that.
Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com
LIGHT car (3100 lbs with driver)
4000 (or larger) stall
steep gears
good suspension (1.3X 60 ft)
KOOKS or Hedman 1 7/8 headers
obviously everything else like CAI, bigger TB, 36 lb inj, GOOD tuning (maybe even DFI set up), etc, etc.
Some thing like this can run high 10's with (estimated) 425 RWHP.
If we are talking about a FULL weight (3700 lb with driver) 97 T/A with T-tops, leather, elec seats, windows, A/C, 12 disc CD changer, we will need 60-75 more HP (maybe even more, ???) to run the same ET.
What is more difficult is when you add the restrictions of a streetable (to most people) converetr and gears in the full weight car and have to worry about the TQ curve at a lower RPM and being more streetable. Dealing with 3.42 gears, 2800 stall, 1 3/4 headers, 1.70 60 ft, etc makes things more difficult. It gets tough to run the same ET with all that weight AND a milder cam that has to work with milder gears, stall and still be drivable.
If the first car mentioned could run a 10.70, the second car would be in the 11.70 range. Weight difference and 60 ft are a BIG part of that.
If we are talking about a full weight car that can only get a 1.70 to 1.80 60 ft, we better be making some SERIOUS HP to ever see a 10 second pass. The 60 ft is ALL about how well the CAR is working (gear, stall, traction, suspension) and has very little to do with power being made. Get the 60 ft down FIRST. Stock head and cam guys are getting 1.5X 60 fts with well set up cars and some are even better than that.
The two car "set ups" listed above are two "extremes" on each side of the spectrum but it gives people an idea about how difficult it is if dealing with a street car. Most peoples set up will fall in between these two examples and most are better off focusing on 60 ft, gear, stall, traction, etc and then getting heads and cam that will propel the car best with that set up. Some might not be able to afford evereything to run a 10 second pass and some might not be willing to sacrifice everything on a full weight, street driven car to get in the 10's. Some people do not wanna lighten the car up enough to raech a 10 second pass and some are cool with that.
Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com
Last edited by NightTrain66; 02-12-2006 at 04:58 AM.
02-17-2006, 04:58 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,525
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
Originally Posted by NightTrain66
ALOT will depend on the cars set up. . . . . . . .
LIGHT car (3100 lbs with driver)
4000 (or larger) stall
steep gears
good suspension (1.3X 60 ft)
KOOKS or Hedman 1 7/8 headers
obviously everything else like CAI, bigger TB, 36 lb inj, GOOD tuning (maybe even DFI set up), etc, etc.
Some thing like this can run high 10's with (estimated) 425 RWHP.
If we are talking about a FULL weight (3700 lb with driver) 97 T/A with T-tops, leather, elec seats, windows, A/C, 12 disc CD changer, we will need 60-75 more HP (maybe even more, ???) to run the same ET.
What is more difficult is when you add the restrictions of a streetable (to most people) converetr and gears in the full weight car and have to worry about the TQ curve at a lower RPM and being more streetable. Dealing with 3.42 gears, 2800 stall, 1 3/4 headers, 1.70 60 ft, etc makes things more difficult. It gets tough to run the same ET with all that weight AND a milder cam that has to work with milder gears, stall and still be drivable.
If the first car mentioned could run a 10.70, the second car would be in the 11.70 range. Weight difference and 60 ft are a BIG part of that.
If we are talking about a full weight car that can only get a 1.70 to 1.80 60 ft, we better be making some SERIOUS HP to ever see a 10 second pass. The 60 ft is ALL about how well the CAR is working (gear, stall, traction, suspension) and has very little to do with power being made. Get the 60 ft down FIRST. Stock head and cam guys are getting 1.5X 60 fts with well set up cars and some are even better than that.
The two car "set ups" listed above are two "extremes" on each side of the spectrum but it gives people an idea about how difficult it is if dealing with a street car. Most peoples set up will fall in between these two examples and most are better off focusing on 60 ft, gear, stall, traction, etc and then getting heads and cam that will propel the car best with that set up. Some might not be able to afford evereything to run a 10 second pass and some might not be willing to sacrifice everything on a full weight, street driven car to get in the 10's. Some people do not wanna lighten the car up enough to raech a 10 second pass and some are cool with that.
Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com
LIGHT car (3100 lbs with driver)
4000 (or larger) stall
steep gears
good suspension (1.3X 60 ft)
KOOKS or Hedman 1 7/8 headers
obviously everything else like CAI, bigger TB, 36 lb inj, GOOD tuning (maybe even DFI set up), etc, etc.
Some thing like this can run high 10's with (estimated) 425 RWHP.
If we are talking about a FULL weight (3700 lb with driver) 97 T/A with T-tops, leather, elec seats, windows, A/C, 12 disc CD changer, we will need 60-75 more HP (maybe even more, ???) to run the same ET.
What is more difficult is when you add the restrictions of a streetable (to most people) converetr and gears in the full weight car and have to worry about the TQ curve at a lower RPM and being more streetable. Dealing with 3.42 gears, 2800 stall, 1 3/4 headers, 1.70 60 ft, etc makes things more difficult. It gets tough to run the same ET with all that weight AND a milder cam that has to work with milder gears, stall and still be drivable.
If the first car mentioned could run a 10.70, the second car would be in the 11.70 range. Weight difference and 60 ft are a BIG part of that.
If we are talking about a full weight car that can only get a 1.70 to 1.80 60 ft, we better be making some SERIOUS HP to ever see a 10 second pass. The 60 ft is ALL about how well the CAR is working (gear, stall, traction, suspension) and has very little to do with power being made. Get the 60 ft down FIRST. Stock head and cam guys are getting 1.5X 60 fts with well set up cars and some are even better than that.
The two car "set ups" listed above are two "extremes" on each side of the spectrum but it gives people an idea about how difficult it is if dealing with a street car. Most peoples set up will fall in between these two examples and most are better off focusing on 60 ft, gear, stall, traction, etc and then getting heads and cam that will propel the car best with that set up. Some might not be able to afford evereything to run a 10 second pass and some might not be willing to sacrifice everything on a full weight, street driven car to get in the 10's. Some people do not wanna lighten the car up enough to raech a 10 second pass and some are cool with that.
Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Eportworks.com
02-17-2006, 06:29 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
You know I am shooting for low 11's on motor and 10's on spray. But like everybody said, esp Lloyd when I talk to him on the phone, everything has to be just right. And it gets real expensive real fast - by the time my engine alone is assembled (minus nitrous) I will have about $9500 in it (and I am assembling everything but the short block myself). Then you start figuring the drivetrain and suspension and we're talking another $7K (and that is with a manual transmission, more for a TH400 or something like that). plus the nitrous system - probably about $1000 but I haven't starting buying that yet so I am not sure.
I do know one thing though, 10's reliably and consistently, and repeatably are expensive. Sure you could throw some fat @ss salad salad shooters and some hoosiers on the back and hit a 300 shot and do it, maybe a couple of times, but that would be the end of it. To do it over and over again, that is expensive.
I do know one thing though, 10's reliably and consistently, and repeatably are expensive. Sure you could throw some fat @ss salad salad shooters and some hoosiers on the back and hit a 300 shot and do it, maybe a couple of times, but that would be the end of it. To do it over and over again, that is expensive.
02-17-2006, 06:35 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: pa
Posts: 1,991
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
$9500 thats a good price i am trying 10 n/a and 9's on the bottle but i spent around 15k for my motor another 7k for suspension,tires,rims,rear,cage
the n20 kits start around 800 for this level but you can sink 2k into one no problem with everything
the n20 kits start around 800 for this level but you can sink 2k into one no problem with everything
02-17-2006, 06:40 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
Yeah, I am looking at 450+rwhp NA, which according to most people I have talked to could get me 10's if I go on a little diet (thinking about a lightweight brake set and those bmr lightweight a arms, shave about 100lbs, plus some other stuff) and get the suspension perfect plus the 4.11 or 4.56 gears. May even go to a sheet metal intake from brett if I have to. But it will probably take me so long to get the chassis/suspension right that i figure low 11's on motor, plus a 200 shot direct port to definately put me in the 10's. But make no mistake, my real goal is 10's on the motor.
02-17-2006, 07:53 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,685
Re: how hard is it to hit 10s
It also depends on if you want a car that performs well only in the 1/4 mi or one that can also go 300 miles to a car show with decent mileage and take an interstate exit at 60 mph or one that takes you to work every day. At a certain point you need to stick your hand down your pants and do TESTOSTERONE CHECK. If it is ever to get a significant short 60, chances are you got to have a dedicated drag suspension and tires and give up some handling and Fm/sattelite/8track/spare tire -or-whatever to get the weight down. Or like has been discussed, just spray it with laughing gas or boost on a stock lump and get your timeslip for bragging rights. BUT to build it to it on demand is a little more involved and expensive as the very knowledgable board members have already mentioned. 
Remember - Time is Money !
Remember - Time is Money !