Hey all, this is my first ever post on this board, but I've been reading on here for nearly a year now. I have a 1997 Trans Am WS.6 M6 and I am currently researching the heads and cam topics on this site. I am pretty tolerant to what most would consider unstreetable, so here are my goals.

Through doing the following:
Heads
Cam
Electric H2o pump
full valvetrain
and tuning of course

I would like to hit the 400rwhp mark which I know can be done, but I would like to do this in a fashion where I don't need to spin past 6300-6500rpm as I am on the stock shortblock. So far for possibilities, I know of the following for heads:

Lloyd Elliot
Advanced Induction
Tin shed racing/ leathal EFI
Combination motorsports
Thunder Racing

However I am open to suggestions, and at this point I am interested in finding the best way to 400rwhp on the motor.

Thanks,
Chris Bailey

 

You left off some of the best heads your money can buy, AFR (Air Flow Research). Buy some of their 220 LT4s and have a cam custom ground to those bad boys and you should not have any problem seeing 400rwhp. But those heads are not cheap. Good Luck.

 

WHat?????? uhhh, no, no he shouldnt do that! 220s would be waaaay to big for what he wants to do. Didnt you read what his goals are? streetable for one... those heads arent going to work well for a street motor with a small streetable cam. second, he said he didnt want to spin the motor that high. On an NA motor in order to see all that those heads have to offer you're going to need to turn the motor over pretty fast. He doesnt need that big of port, especially if he wants to retain some of his torque.

 

But if you re-read his post a little better, he said he is "more tolerant as what some think is unstreetable." This could be deciphered as he is a little more lax on what is streetable and what is not.

He also stated he does not want to spin past 6500rpm. He should be able to get quit a bit of power out of a LT4 head/custom cam setup spinning to only 6500rpms.

Also, people run big heads/cam on stock shortblocks all the time. It is not like this is something new and never heard of.

I just gave him a suggestion of how he could hit his goal of 400rwhp mark and not rev past 6500rpms.

 

XE230/236 and my mods should make 400rwhp.

Jeff D.

 

I do know of the AFR products, and yes they have more potential for power, but it has been proven that one can get 400rwhp or close to that on the stock castings. As most of us, I am not made of money so I would prefer to stay away from the AFR's if possible, but if I did go that route, it would be more like the 190 LT1s or 195 LT4s instead. I guess my question now is are AFR's going to really show me that much gain over the stock heads? Again I would be referring to the 190s or 195s over stockers. This is not a strip car, as most if not all of the track time that it will see is going to involve a road course. So I am looking moreso for an overall good power band, just power in the 400rwhp range.

Thanks,
Chris

 

Phil (Advanced Induction) get over 400 rwhp out of a lot of his port jobs. These are with daily drivable hydraulic cams and stock blocks. Check out his website www.advancedinduction.com. IMO his work is head and shoulders above Lloyd's.

 

I am impressed with what I have seen from Phil, and most likely will end up going that route, however I saw a monster post this summer about Tin Shed Racing / Leathal EFI saying that they hit 452 rwhp on stock bottom end with AFR lt4s and nothing ever really came as to updates as were promised in the thread. Does anyone know anything else about them?

Thanks,
Chris

 

Could you post the numbers you have between both sets of heads (Lloyd's and Phil's)? Not trying to sound like an a$$, but why is Phil that much better than Lloyd. Oh, and before you say he has quite a few cars making 400rwhp, keep in mind most of the stock bottom end guys are using custom cams that nobody has specs for. If you compare there work with similar setups I think you'll be eating your own words. Not trying to badmouth Phil, but his full port only made 25rwhp on a 383 with pretty much the same cam compared to my setup (stock bottom). I havent even got a good tune yet. Phil benefits from matching custom cams to his heads. Lloyd just ports heads and recommends cams. Thats the difference.

 

Having a custom cam helps, but its not going to give 50hp more than an "off the shelf" cam.

I made 412rwhp/371rwtq with Phil's "EconoPort" (not full port) heads and a GM847 camshaft (Crane 234/242)

Nick made 411rwhp with a Crane 230/238 cam.

The specs on his HR-211 cam may be secret but I doubt it's larger than the GM847. Besides, dynos don't care if you are using a custom camshaft or not, 400rwhp is 400rwhp

 

I agree with what you said. However, the fact is that similar combos are not compared because most people have off the shefl cams and get Lloyd's heads while other get phil's heads with off the custom cams or large off the shelf cams. I saw the post 2 weeks ago about 383 LT1 with Phil's full port and he made about 25rwhp more with the XE230/236 cam. I have to still tune the car as I am on an old program that had me @ 10:1 A/F on the dyno. I played with the regular to get temporary #'s and I am up to 383rwhp. I am getting a retune, so better numbers should be coming next Sat.

My point is just because Phil gets 400rwhp by usig custom cams and his heads doesnt mean he his head and shoulders above Lloyd. People need to compare combos, not just final output. Its lik Phil doing a hotcam car and getting 360rwhp out of it, and then I say lloyd is better cuz my combo got more. Just food for thought.

 

I was going to go with Phils heads but i just bought some of lloyd elliots today. Too good of a deal to pass up. Saved me 900 bucks.
Ive been following both for a while now.. I know at least one of the board members with LE heads / small cam (224/230 112 I think), 30lb inj, 52mm tb and electric water pump hit 385wrhp. Which is awesome for that small cam.. Im hoping to his 375-380 with the same set up just a slightly smaller cc305.
But then Grease, dr. mudge and another guy are making +400 or in the 390 range but with a much bigger cam.
I'd say they are both really close in there workmanship.... as far as i could tell by talking to both guys and everyone with their heads...
You cant go wrong with either 1. Both guys are incredibly helpful. I cant think of anyone else I'd want touching my heads.

 

Ive heard from numerous sources that Lloyd's heads don't flow nearly the numbers he claims. IMHO he is catering to people that want to internet race their head flow numbers for the least amount of money. Not saying he is a crook or starting a flame war or anything, just informing a fellow consumer.

 

I really doubt thats going to be at 6000 RPM or something so that your shifting at your desired 6400? Dont be afraid to be realistic, the stock block can take some RPM. If you plan to race it every 5 minutes your going to kill it eventually anyway, if you enjoy it now and again then dont worry so much.

Plus, your looking at $ aftermarket heads + work compared to "crappy stockers."

 

jsut got back from dyno...
141k miles on stock bottom end.. yes the rings are shot.. yes it smokes like a train

409rwhp 374rwtq

Advanced Induction LT1 heads, Ai's "211" cam, 1.6 rr
all the basic other crap