Dynoed my 847 car today...
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thos enumbers seem low considering my LT4 Hotcam with only LTs, CAI, and ignition (stock rear, heads, TB, Fuel System) was running bigger numbers than yours with lockup and open exhaust. Granted mine is a M6....but i didnt think the powerloss was that much...maybe you need to tweek your tune a little
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 326
From: Topeka, KS
Believe what you want, but I never said gears cost me 20 hp, everything together was what I was getting at but whatever. There are a lot more factors to pan out so you can not compare your friends car to mine really. Altitude, humidity, temperature ect... and corrections are just a generalization, and you really need to take measurements of everything to choose the proper correction method.
I could care less what your friends CC306 car dynoed, what did it run at the track? Is/was it an auto car or a manual car? I am going to try to make it to the track here in the next week or two and see what it does there... that's all that really matters anyways. Dyno numbers are just there for gloating purposes.
I could care less what your friends CC306 car dynoed, what did it run at the track? Is/was it an auto car or a manual car? I am going to try to make it to the track here in the next week or two and see what it does there... that's all that really matters anyways. Dyno numbers are just there for gloating purposes.
So then why did you even dyno your car? And it looks as if you dont have anything to gloat about
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,245
From: Ocala, Florida
330rwhp with stock heads/cam what are you smoking?!?! I wish... but I do think there is something missing, I was expecting something a little more than that.
I do have my dyno printout I just have to upload them and I'll do that later tonight, hopefully I get around to it.
You have to think about this when looking at my numbers though. I have an BUILT A4 which is a loss of power right there, I have a nitrous converter which is a loss of power n/a, and 3.73's which is another loss of power.
Without factoring in power consumption from the converter taking the loss from the auto and going to a 6-speed car that would put it right around 360rwhp. Plus whatever is lost in my nitrous converter brings it to around 380ishrwhp, down to stock gears brings it right back around 400rwhp, so like I said not too bad when I think about it.
I do have my dyno printout I just have to upload them and I'll do that later tonight, hopefully I get around to it.
You have to think about this when looking at my numbers though. I have an BUILT A4 which is a loss of power right there, I have a nitrous converter which is a loss of power n/a, and 3.73's which is another loss of power.
Without factoring in power consumption from the converter taking the loss from the auto and going to a 6-speed car that would put it right around 360rwhp. Plus whatever is lost in my nitrous converter brings it to around 380ishrwhp, down to stock gears brings it right back around 400rwhp, so like I said not too bad when I think about it.
Believe what you want, but I never said gears cost me 20 hp, everything together was what I was getting at but whatever. There are a lot more factors to pan out so you can not compare your friends car to mine really. Altitude, humidity, temperature ect... and corrections are just a generalization, and you really need to take measurements of everything to choose the proper correction method.
I could care less what your friends CC306 car dynoed, what did it run at the track? Is/was it an auto car or a manual car? I am going to try to make it to the track here in the next week or two and see what it does there... that's all that really matters anyways. Dyno numbers are just there for gloating purposes.
I could care less what your friends CC306 car dynoed, what did it run at the track? Is/was it an auto car or a manual car? I am going to try to make it to the track here in the next week or two and see what it does there... that's all that really matters anyways. Dyno numbers are just there for gloating purposes.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,905
From: Orlando,Fl
Okay dude, whatever, and you never answered my question... what did your buddies CC306 car run, and was it A4 or M6?
My car with just a CAI + 3.73's lost 10rwhp so it stands to reason that heads/cam/lt's/tune + 3.73's can loose 20ish... but whatever makes it easier for you to sleep.
My car with just a CAI + 3.73's lost 10rwhp so it stands to reason that heads/cam/lt's/tune + 3.73's can loose 20ish... but whatever makes it easier for you to sleep.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,070
From: newton, kansas, USA
Dude that is pretty pathetic numbers. Most CC306 or 847 cam only cars put down 350-360 rwhp. I don't think it really bothers speed demon as his car is putting out almost 100 rwhp than your car and I believe he has a smaller cam. It doesn't really effect any of us if your car is turd. We're just trying to tell you that you're car should put out a lot more power and you should look for whats holding it back.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,764
From: North Canton, OH
Come on guys...this guy post his results and he is getting crap for it.
Going to a numerically higher gear typically costs some rwhp, at the most 5 rwhp.
As for the converter being unlocked, you will loose rwhp. For it being a nitrous converter, unless you are having massive slippage issues or it is way to tight, it will cost you very little rwhp.
As for your transmission costing you power, being built should actually only make more power.
Your numbers have been corrected to your weather conditions. That is what SAE correction factor means.
Your locked converter numbers would be close to a 6 speed setup.
What was your knock? What octane gas did you use? What was your tire pressure? What rims & tire combo do you have?
Dynos are tuning tool and not the end all of how a car performs. There are many cars that do not dyno incredible numbers but somehow manage to run very well. Combination is the key.
Going to a numerically higher gear typically costs some rwhp, at the most 5 rwhp.
As for the converter being unlocked, you will loose rwhp. For it being a nitrous converter, unless you are having massive slippage issues or it is way to tight, it will cost you very little rwhp.
As for your transmission costing you power, being built should actually only make more power.
Your numbers have been corrected to your weather conditions. That is what SAE correction factor means.
Your locked converter numbers would be close to a 6 speed setup.
What was your knock? What octane gas did you use? What was your tire pressure? What rims & tire combo do you have?
Dynos are tuning tool and not the end all of how a car performs. There are many cars that do not dyno incredible numbers but somehow manage to run very well. Combination is the key.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 484
From: Orlando FL
My 847 made some good power for what it had. A rebuilt 355 with port matched heads with all the bolt ons. It edged out a good friend of mines LS1 car that put down 380rwhp. Both cars were m6, equal drivers.
I think its just the combo of parts, something isnt right. Were the heads shaved? How much? Who flowed the heads?
It would be kinda funny to put on a stock set of LT1 heads and watch it make more power.Like everyone has said, Cam only cars seem to make more power.
Eddie,
If you could, post your flow Numbers that way we can get a better idea.
Trent
I think its just the combo of parts, something isnt right. Were the heads shaved? How much? Who flowed the heads?
It would be kinda funny to put on a stock set of LT1 heads and watch it make more power.
Like everyone has said, Cam only cars seem to make more power. Eddie,
If you could, post your flow Numbers that way we can get a better idea.
Trent
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,182
From: Moore OK
My 847 made 38xhp and 355ish tq.
Another one with better heads made 415 and 375tq - both 6 speeds.
Take it to the track and see what it does - But honestly if that is sae smoothing it looks like you may have an issue up top. Knock or a miss?
Its a little low on power everywhere - but I don't think everyone should bash the hell out of you either.
And as for stock heads
- I did 275 with intack, long tubes, duals, etc. Find me some RRs that add 50hp please.
- cc306 with stock heads I made 335 and power fell off wayyy early. Very few cam only lt1s do 360rwhp.
Another one with better heads made 415 and 375tq - both 6 speeds.
Take it to the track and see what it does - But honestly if that is sae smoothing it looks like you may have an issue up top. Knock or a miss?
Its a little low on power everywhere - but I don't think everyone should bash the hell out of you either.
And as for stock heads
- I did 275 with intack, long tubes, duals, etc. Find me some RRs that add 50hp please.
- cc306 with stock heads I made 335 and power fell off wayyy early. Very few cam only lt1s do 360rwhp.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 631
From: LA/SD, CA
No one started bashing him out of nowhere. Everyone had commented how low on power it was (including him in his original post) and then he got defensive instead of trying to ask for advice on finding his problems. We're all here to help each other, if you don't think there's anything wrong with your car or you don't want to take advice, then there's really not much of a point of posting.
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,853
From: Jupiter (NPB), Fl
Actually ya did, based on the math below....
Without factoring in power consumption from the converter taking the loss from the auto and going to a 6-speed car that would put it right around 360rwhp. Plus whatever is lost in my nitrous converter brings it to around 380ishrwhp, down to stock gears brings it right back around 400rwhp, so like I said not too bad when I think about it.
Built trans won't suck down power... and the 3.73's ain't gonna make that much of a difference. With the locked converter #'s it ain't a big deal either compared to a 6spd car.
I've got a built CPT trans with a "big" stall and I mph better than alot of 6spds
The car is down on power according to the dyno for what it should be but w/e just take it to the track and see how it really does.
Without factoring in power consumption from the converter taking the loss from the auto and going to a 6-speed car that would put it right around 360rwhp. Plus whatever is lost in my nitrous converter brings it to around 380ishrwhp, down to stock gears brings it right back around 400rwhp, so like I said not too bad when I think about it.
I've got a built CPT trans with a "big" stall and I mph better than alot of 6spds
The car is down on power according to the dyno for what it should be but w/e just take it to the track and see how it really does.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,406
From: Downey, CA
My intent is not to dog pile here, but you are down on power an average from what
I would expect. You also did not say anything about your valve springs, retainers,
pushrods so it's hard to say if you are setup to make the most out of the 6k+ peak
power range of that cam. What are your port volumes on your heads? If you are
185cc or less then that will also be somewhat limiting. As stated previously the
stock head 847 cars put down around 350 rwhp. I would expect 380-400 if everything
else is set up and working properly.
I'm also skeptical about your Flowmaster results and think that something else is
going on that is hurting you on the exhaust side. I have had Flowmasters on many
cars including an 80 series on my TA and it made power over a straight through type
muffler (edelbrock, dynomax, magnaflow, etc.), granted only a small amount like 2
rwhp on the dyno, which is not enough difference to really say one way or the other.
From my personal experience Flowmasters have not cost any power. They just tend
to be louder and have much more interior resonance.
My point is that the difference between open cutout and full exhaust is way too much
so regardless of the muffler you have, something else is going on there. I have a full
exhaust with catalytics and I'll bet $100 that it does not cost me more than 5-10 rwhp
from an open cutout.
I would expect. You also did not say anything about your valve springs, retainers,
pushrods so it's hard to say if you are setup to make the most out of the 6k+ peak
power range of that cam. What are your port volumes on your heads? If you are
185cc or less then that will also be somewhat limiting. As stated previously the
stock head 847 cars put down around 350 rwhp. I would expect 380-400 if everything
else is set up and working properly.
I'm also skeptical about your Flowmaster results and think that something else is
going on that is hurting you on the exhaust side. I have had Flowmasters on many
cars including an 80 series on my TA and it made power over a straight through type
muffler (edelbrock, dynomax, magnaflow, etc.), granted only a small amount like 2
rwhp on the dyno, which is not enough difference to really say one way or the other.
From my personal experience Flowmasters have not cost any power. They just tend
to be louder and have much more interior resonance.
My point is that the difference between open cutout and full exhaust is way too much
so regardless of the muffler you have, something else is going on there. I have a full
exhaust with catalytics and I'll bet $100 that it does not cost me more than 5-10 rwhp
from an open cutout.