only a couple things i need to order now to finish off my parts list
guys with the OBD2 cars and upgraded timing chains and coolant pumps
Summit has a billet E-pump for $179 and if i remember right the Cloyes double roller is like 60 or 70 bucks? anyone have the part# handy for that?
now Summit also has the GM extreme duty timing set for $239
going either way works out to rufly the same price!
curious is the power gains worth the hassle of dealing with the stuff that needs to be taken care of inside the OBD2 timing cover, vs. just using the Extreme Duty chain
or am i worrying too much about what needs to be modified with the OBD2 stuff?
and can someone give me a quick rundown of what is needed/how exactly to use the double roller timing set on an OBD2 car?

thanks guys
Steve

 

ttt...guys help me finish of my parts buying spree

 

If you go with an electric pump, you will reuse most of the stock housing from your existing pump. Look a CSI or Meziere. Those two companies make kits that convert the pump to electric operation. The CSI that I have cost me $135 at Summit.

Once you go with the electric pump, then you can go with a standard small bock Chevy timing chain for a roller cam equipped car (1987 and up). I used a Cloyes True dual roller setup. It cost me something like $75 from Combination Motorsports. You may have to grind the timing cover to make sure that the chain clears. You will have to plug up the hole in the cover that the water pump drive shaft used to go through.

If you have an OBD-II car, the reluctor wheel for the crank position sensor won't fit with the Cloyes chain. You can just have the sensor programmed out, since all it does is detect misfires. The car will run just fine without it. I didn't have to clearance my cover at all, and the crank position sensor didn't apply to me, since I have a 95 OBD-I car.

In any case, the electric pump and the much stronger timing chain cost less than the LT4 Extreme Duty setup. Plus, extra horsepower, no leaks on the Opti, etc.

 

thanks bud if you have them could you give me the part#'s please?
for the Cloyes true double roller timing set and the CSI pump

 

u will need to plug up the hole on the timing chain cover where the opti drive used to go and the sensor on the bottom of the cover cant be used


part # for the CSI pump is:CSI-901LT1

part # for the chain is:220-9-3145

all from summit's website.

 

thank you for the part numbers

friend of mine told me the electric pumps arent good at high rpm, says they dont flow enuf coolant compared to the stock one?
any reasons why i might want to stay with the stock pump and extreme duty chain?

 

Dont know about the electric pumps not flowing enough. The biggest reason to stay with the stock pump and ED set is that at least the stock pump gives you a warning when its done, the E-pump will take a crap seemingly out of the blue.

 

the part# for the timing set didnt come up with anything on Summitracing.com

EDIT: is this it? http://store.summitracing.com/partde...CLO%2D9%2D3145

 

IMO,

I wouldnt use a Cloyes timing chain setup if it was giving to me. The guy that built my engine has had problems with the Cloyes stripping the teeth off. I dont remember for sure if it was the crank gear or the cam gear. All I know is it cost him alot of money to repair the damage that it caused.

If your planning on going with an electric water pump, I would use a Rollmaster timing chain. It is made of solid billet steet, hardened crank gear, and German engineered chain if memory serves me correct. It is a true double roller chain also. Only thing that will have to be done with this chain is some grinding on the inside of the timing cover. I used a small air belt sander and it went quick. The part number from Rollmaster is CS8305. I know Competition Products in Wisconsin sells them for 79.95. The timing chain I just told you about is for an 87-up SBC with a factory roller cam.

This a link to Competition Products web page and also a pic of the Rollmaster chain setup--

http://www.primediapowerpages.com/cg...0216&2D1007425

When you use an electric waterpump, dont expect your car to run as cool s it did before going down the highway in the summer. My car always warmed up a little more than I wanted during the summer on the interstate. Besides doing that kind of driving, it cools just fine driving on 2 lane roads and in stop and go traffic. Just make sure you keep an eye on your temp gauge more so then before. My CSI pump died on me going down the interstate and the temp gauge went straight to 260. As soon as I saw it jump up that high, I shut the car off and coasted to a stop. After I messed with it, I found out that the wiring was loose going into the pump. A little tape and some tie straps and I was on my way. Overall its been a decent pump.

One other thing, my luck with the GM extreme duty timing set wasnt too goood either. The main reason for my rebuild is that the back section of the cam gear that drives the pump decided to come apart. Over a few months, the gear kept wearing and wearing and it put alot of metal into the motor. I was told the gear wasnt hardened properly and thats why it started to come apart. I do have some pics of what happened to the gears, but they are at my computer at school.

You can take this info with a grain of salt, but I know the Rollmaster is a very nice piece, and I have had excellent results with it. Good luck with your choice.
Brian

 

does the CSI pump come with all necessary wiring to hookup and everything else if there is anything?
this is what i've gotten out of all the above info....
1.the waterpump drive, shaft and gear, can be completely removed when switching over to an E-h2o pump?! if removed do i need to plug the hole in the block that will be left over? or do i just remove the shaft?
2. the crank position sensor(?) needs to be removed or atleast deleted (which?) from the ECM for proper function in an OBD2 car with a double roller timing set?
3. some grinding of the timing cover will probably be needed done for clearance? where exactly....the whole cover or just aruond one of the sprockets?
4. plugging of the hole in the timing cover for the stock water pump drive will need to be done, with what?
did anyone need to shim anything when doing this?
any special "how tos" or "special circumstances" anything someone would like to share about their experience with this swap? especially from the OBD2 crowd!!

thanks a helluva lot guys been great help so far!!
Steve

 

Maybe your crank gear wasn't fully seated or something, although if you use a 95 crank hub it should drive the crank gear fully on even if it wasn't on before.

 

The crank gear on my engine was seated properly. But the part of the cam gear that came apart was the back side of it that drives the waterpump. It had nothing to do with the actual chain itself, just the back side where the waterpump driveshaft gear rides on.

Brian

 

Answers to your questions--
The CSI pump comes with a fused wire harness, but it is not long enough to reach to anywhere. I just soldered some wires onto the ends of the harness and took it to where I wanted it to go. You will want to buy some sort of a relay to make the wiring alot easier also.

1. Yes the waterpump driveshaft and bearing setup can be completely removed from the block. There is no reason to plug the hole on the block, as it wouldnt do anything at all.
2. Dont know on the CPS as I have OBD1
3. When I installed the Rollmaster true roller, I required grinding pretty much wherever the chain went. I took the cover off, sprayed it with a machinist's die(made by Dykem) and held the cover where it should be on the motor and turned the motor over by hand. This showed me where the chain was hitting, and I kept grinding from there. Here is a link to the belt sander that I used--
Belt sander link

This sander worked great for what I needed, and went pretty fast. Once you clearance where the chain is hitting, wash it or blow it off, and then spray the die back on it again. Put the cover back and put pressure on it with yoour hand while you spin the crank slowly. If it still needs some clearancing, it will show up as bare metal coming through the die. For the Rollmaster setup, I did these steps over and over until I got it right, and then went a little bit extra for added clearance. If you will be doing your cam swap sometime if March or later, I can take pics of my timing cover as I will have it off for a cam swap.

4. For sealing the timing cover hole I used a freeze plug for that. I dont remember te size once you pull out the seal though. Just measure the hole size and go to your nearest parts store and buy a freeze plug as close to that sized hole you can. Remember to put RTV on and around the plug so that it doesnt leak.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Brian