Very well said Shoebox.


Karl Ellwein
Ellwein Engines

 

I eye-ball 45 deg (1/8th turn) and go just a bit past that for about 50-60deg. It really is easy to do. I'm sure anyone here can see 1/8th, 1/4, 1/2 turn. 20ft-lb then a hair past 1/8th turn (by eye-ball). Matches my calibrated-prior-to-every-engine-build torque wrench every time.

Karl Ellwein
Ellwein Engines

 

O.K. thank you all for this discussion!!
I am going to start the assembling next weekend,knowing all the ins and outs right now and dont worry anymore about the bolts.

 

I am about to get my stock bottom end back together, and want to make sure this is still an OK practice to reuse stock rod bolts, or perhaps see if others have tried it and failed.

 

I re-used the stock rod bolts and torqued them like Karl did. That was 5 years and 50k ago and still running strong.

 

How high do you spin?

Also, how important is it keep the pistons /rods in the exact same order they came out? I still have everything sitting in the same order in the garage. Just curious.

 

I reused stock rod bolts on a 96 lt4 block, shouldn't have... broke a rod

 

You should try a simple google search on the subject before calling into question the knowledge of others.

As has been said by Karl and Shoebox, the rod bolts are not torque to yield. Just because a fastener has a torque-angle specification does not mean that it is a torque to yield or a one time use item. Torque-angle is simply a different method of achieving stretch, not a description of a bolt it'self...AmericanMuscle & shoebox described the theory well, so I will not repeat it.

I use a snap-on techwrench for torque-angle work, they're well worth the cost when you have fastener specifications with multiple angle steps such as 16 ft/lb + 60* + 60*

 

It sounds like you're basically reassembling stock components, if that's the case it's very important. Those used bearings are going to want to see the same journal they've been wearing to, rings will want to see the same cylinder bore they've worn to, don't want to upset the balance, etc, etc. I'd also mention it's important to keep track of which cap belongs to which rod. Typically a good idea to well label everything.

And not to beat a dead horse, but I wouldn't re-use stock rod bolts. I'm not trying to step on Karl's toes, or even say he's wrong & and that you can't. But rod bolts are relatively inexpensive (I think ARP's go for $50 or so), and for a few bucks I'd like to have the piece of mind. The rebuild books I used to guide me told me to do so, without much of a reason; but I'm willing to blindly follow them due to their low cost, and the fact that I'm sure Mike Mavrigian knows more than me.

 

I assumed I would be getting new piston rings, and I am certainly getting new bearings. All of the caps are still with the same rods in the same order they came apart. What if a piston/rod pair got turned around 180* and went back on the same journal?

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk

 

One shop told me they were TTY, another told me they were not TTY.

The shop who told me I could reuse them is the shop I ended up using cause he was more reputable and he said if you're spinning the motor to 6500+ he would recommend the ARP rod bolts. I was on the fence about it because of the extra cost but he said if you're on the fence about it to just do it for cheap insurance.

American Muscle, there is more than that in getting rod bolts. They are about $70 for the LT1 rod bolts, and they rods have to be reconditioned which includes removing each piston, reconditioning each rod, and putting the piston back on. It will cost about 230 when it's all said and done.

Not to mention there is a good chance that a piston will break in the R&R process. It takes an immense amount of pressure to get them off and it's common for them to break.

Only one of mine broke. It wasn't visibly broken but he said the measurement taken after was different from the first measurement so something happened to the piston and he wanted me to bring in another one. For whatever reason that particular piston took twice the pressure of the rest to come off. Lucky for me I had a spare set of LT1 pistons at home but a lot of others would be on here trying to find a single piston to buy and if it were still on a rod they'd be paying to get it taken off and taking the same gamble.

Not saying it isn't worth it, just saying it's not really "cheap" insurance.

 

You can buy a honing tool and hone your cylinders. You will need new piston rings to assure a proper seal to your newly cross hatched block. I think I paid $50 for LT1 rings and I didn't even have to gap them. I forgot the part number but I after doing 3 cylinders and noticing that all the rings were already in spec I called Hastings and they told me that particular ring was not file fit so it moved along pretty quick, not having to file any rings.

If your main caps get mixed up like mine did, you will notice on each cap there is a number... That will give you the order. It might be hard to see but it's there, so don't worry about mixing them up.

Your rod caps can only go on one way so don't mix them up. Mark each one. My machine shop etched into each rod the number of the rod. He etched it on each side, on both the cap and rod for a total of 4 etchings on each rod. Pretty convenient.

 

So the rods must be reconditioned?

 

If you use arp yes. The larger studs placed will oval the rods end and it will need to be honed to become a perfect circle again. If the piston is still on the rod its about 15 per rod to recondition.

 

And I assume its another $6-$8 to have the pistons removed from the rods each, and more to have them reattached...