causes for running excessively rich
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
Originally Posted by Dave89IROC
what are your BLMs?
check your fuel pressure, if too high(regulator or return line blocked) it will be rich
check your fuel pressure, if too high(regulator or return line blocked) it will be rich
Also would a vaccuum leak cause it to run rich also (this seems to be one the things I can't check very easily, cuz the car wont idle by itself and also I have no clue to where it should be with a LE 1 cam, i'm sure lower than with a factory cam tho.)
Last edited by 93camaroLT1; Nov 3, 2005 at 08:00 PM.
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From: Providence RI
Re: causes for running excessively rich
My car is a 93 also and it's located in the front of the motor, behind the water pump, it's a brass threaded bolt with a weatherpack connector comming out of it!
The local parts store called it a " coolant temp sensor" there is one for the coolant guage, and one behind the water pump.
Hope I'm using the correct term. I would bet the farm thats your problem.
The local parts store called it a " coolant temp sensor" there is one for the coolant guage, and one behind the water pump.
Hope I'm using the correct term. I would bet the farm thats your problem.
Last edited by TEG99SS; Nov 3, 2005 at 08:10 PM.
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
behind the water pump? Do mean under the water pump (I sure hope I don't have to pull the water pump to get to this)?
Kinda weird if that is the problem, cuz the car ran perfectly before the heads/cam swap (suggesting all this stuff was OK before the heads/cam swap), and after it started running rich as hell.. which I was told happens and that you need to tune it, but even after a mail order tune it still persists to run rediculusly rich.
Kinda weird if that is the problem, cuz the car ran perfectly before the heads/cam swap (suggesting all this stuff was OK before the heads/cam swap), and after it started running rich as hell.. which I was told happens and that you need to tune it, but even after a mail order tune it still persists to run rediculusly rich.
Last edited by 93camaroLT1; Nov 3, 2005 at 08:25 PM.
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
I will just test this with a voltameter tommorrow. how does this being defective cause the car to run rich though, I don't quite get that part, cuz that would mean that the car would run extemely rich every time the engine was cold (when there is a very high resistance on the sending unit, 1365 ohms) and then when the engine is at operating tempretures (when the resistance is extremely low, 55 ohms) the car would run lean out? Why would the PCM do this?
Last edited by 93camaroLT1; Nov 3, 2005 at 09:07 PM.
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From: Denton/Rockwall, TX
Re: causes for running excessively rich
It will only cause the car to run extremely rich when warm, because once warmed up the computer uses the readings from that temperature sensor and the 02's to decide the air/fuel ratio. When you change it, be careful and have the other one ready and pre-wrapped in the plumbing tape, because water will come out on the opti-spark. I wrapped mine with rags. I wish I had just done this first, but I spent money on new plugs/wires, 4 02 sensors, and 3 temp sensors before I finally tried the pigtail connector the the ECT, and that was it. Good luck. Let us know what happens with the car.
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
damn... sounds like that can't be the problem then, because it is running extremely rich right soon as it fires (also once the plugs are fouled you can just smell the excessive amounts of gas in the exhaust just cranking the car) with when cold and I haven't tried to run it for long enough to get it to operating tempretures, but I got a feeling that the plugs would foul out and the car would just stall out before that happens. Also the car is set to run open loop mode all the time (what all cars run in before the o2s reach operating temps, where the pcm ignores the o2s for that period of time, I beleive it is something like 2 minutes normally.), in open loop I know the pcm ignores the O2s (which currrently arent even connected in my car) and the MAF (assuming you have one, 94-97), So I would kindof assume that is would also ignore the ECT, based on what you said about "ONCE WARMED UP the computer uses the readings from that temperature sensor and the 02's to decide the air/fuel ratio" which must mean it reads based of off it AFTER it goes into closed loop, which my car never goes into anymore. Also based on what you said, your car did not run excessively rich BEFORE it was warmed up (in closed loop mode), is that correct?
Damn, that sucks, I was really hoping that was the issue
Damn, that sucks, I was really hoping that was the issue
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From: Denton/Rockwall, TX
Re: causes for running excessively rich
Mine would run rich all of the time, but would EXTREMELY rich once warm. IDK, it might be worth it it you to pull the connector off of the ECT and inspect it. The clips inside the connector that touch the metal on the sensor were wore out on mine, and causing it to freak out. Might be worth the 5 minutes to look at though.
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
Originally Posted by 69gto96z
Mine would run rich all of the time, but would EXTREMELY rich once warm. IDK, it might be worth it it you to pull the connector off of the ECT and inspect it. The clips inside the connector that touch the metal on the sensor were wore out on mine, and causing it to freak out. Might be worth the 5 minutes to look at though.
Last edited by 93camaroLT1; Nov 4, 2005 at 12:22 AM.
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From: Florence, Kentucky
Re: causes for running excessively rich
Originally Posted by 93camaroLT1
i'll check it out... I dunno, it almost seems like a tuning issue, its runs very rich on stock programming and also with the piggyback chip and everything I can possibly think of that would cause this besides tuning I have already check besides cam/valve timing, i didnt check that just because I don't think the car would even run if the cam/valve timing was completely off, or would it? (I didn't install the heads/cam so I have no way being absolutely positive that it was done right). Would cam/valve timing cause excessive amounts of unburned fuel and horrible spark plug fouling (to the point that the car will not fire again) everytime it runs? I had always thought that the car would not run if it was off OR if it was slightly off it would run very poorly with nasty backfiring and/or dieseling, which doesn't seem to be the case, I mean during cam break in the engine was ran at 2000 rpm for 30 mins and driven after that, would that even be possible if the timing was off? (obviously, with running EXTREMELY rich then also, I went through 3/8 tank of fuel in that 30 mins and you could literally watch the gas guage drop with sitting there at 2 grand, but it ran for that period of time)...
If you can't get a scanner. It might be best to pay the $75 diagnose fee from a GM dealer to scan it for you. There are just too many things it could be.
Go back and check all the connections and sensors to make sure you didn't break wires or leave wires unhooked. Especially the coolant temp. If it was working before the cam swap then most likely it was something that was messed up on the install.
I highly doubt that a Madwolf tune would cause this.
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
this sounds very similar to my problems i had when i installed my le1 package. the 1ist problem i found was that the splined shaft was off by one spline (it can happen, even with that big spline in there). the next problem i had, ws the valve adjustment. if i got em too tight (1/2 turn past 0 lash, when adjusted with the car off), i had ****ty vaccum (5-8")and the car ran super rich. i had to adjust them with the car running, to get any decent vaccum. you should have 14-16" with the le1 cam. i also replaced my o2s which helped.
shortly after gettin all that **** straight, a keeper broke at the track and dropped a valve, dammit. 383 time.......
shortly after gettin all that **** straight, a keeper broke at the track and dropped a valve, dammit. 383 time.......
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
Originally Posted by rcmtby11
this sounds very similar to my problems i had when i installed my le1 package. the 1ist problem i found was that the splined shaft was off by one spline (it can happen, even with that big spline in there). the next problem i had, ws the valve adjustment. if i got em too tight (1/2 turn past 0 lash, when adjusted with the car off), i had ****ty vaccum (5-8")and the car ran super rich. i had to adjust them with the car running, to get any decent vaccum. you should have 14-16" with the le1 cam. i also replaced my o2s which helped.
shortly after gettin all that **** straight, a keeper broke at the track and dropped a valve, dammit. 383 time.......
shortly after gettin all that **** straight, a keeper broke at the track and dropped a valve, dammit. 383 time.......
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
Originally Posted by 97WS6Pilot
If you say the car ran pretty well during driving, cam timing is most likely not your cause. You really need to get or borrow a scanner. I would not start just throwing parts at it. If you get a haynes manual and a scanner the problem will reveal itself.
If you can't get a scanner. It might be best to pay the $75 diagnose fee from a GM dealer to scan it for you. There are just too many things it could be.
Go back and check all the connections and sensors to make sure you didn't break wires or leave wires unhooked. Especially the coolant temp. If it was working before the cam swap then most likely it was something that was messed up on the install.
I highly doubt that a Madwolf tune would cause this.
If you can't get a scanner. It might be best to pay the $75 diagnose fee from a GM dealer to scan it for you. There are just too many things it could be.
Go back and check all the connections and sensors to make sure you didn't break wires or leave wires unhooked. Especially the coolant temp. If it was working before the cam swap then most likely it was something that was messed up on the install.
I highly doubt that a Madwolf tune would cause this.
Also wondering, How much is a scanner exactly?? If its within a couple hundred bucks, it sounds like something I should invest my next paycheck into... Could the PCM shooting out troublecodes without triggering the CHECK ENGINE light because it does not come on while the car runs is why I ask?
Last edited by 93camaroLT1; Nov 4, 2005 at 02:28 PM.
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Re: causes for running excessively rich
Originally Posted by 93camaroLT1
I have a LE 1 heads/cam swap, What are some things to check that would cause the car to run very excessively rich? When I say excessively rich, I mean to the point were the engine floods, and all the plugs foul. The car will run with clean plugs, but will run really rich, and even if I kill the ignition, it will fire back up and it will actually drive, but if I leave it for the night and try it in the morning, the car will no longer fire and when you pull the plugs, there is nasty amounts of carbon buildup on the plugs. Also if you pull the plugs right after running the car they come out soaking wet with gas.
Issues already looked at are as follows:
-The car currently has the stock 22 lb/hr injectors back in, cuz I thought the overkill 42 Lb/hr might have been the cause both sets of injectors do essentially the same thing, but the 42 lb/hr ones are just a bit worse about flooding the motor, both sets have perfect O rings also.
-The plug wires are in correct firing order
-It has a brand new walbro 255 in the tank, and the stock fuel pressure regulator. I can only assume fuel pressure is not an issue here, cuz its running too rich, suggesting that fuel pressure is not an issue.
-The valve timing/spark timing must be correct cuz the car runs and drives with fresh plugs and if it wasn't I wouldn't think that would be a possibility.
-The tuning must be correct cuz it was flashed 3 different times on 2 different chips (twice on the first chip, once on the second) by Ion, whom has done tons of fbodies. Also the adapter/chip must be reading properly, cuz if it wasn't the car would go into a failsafe mode, where the check engine light goes on and the fans kick on.
-The chip is set to run the PCM in open loop mode and oxygen sensors were disconnected, ruling that out of being a possibility.
What else is there that would cause running excessivly rich that I am not looking at yet?
Issues already looked at are as follows:
-The car currently has the stock 22 lb/hr injectors back in, cuz I thought the overkill 42 Lb/hr might have been the cause both sets of injectors do essentially the same thing, but the 42 lb/hr ones are just a bit worse about flooding the motor, both sets have perfect O rings also.
-The plug wires are in correct firing order
-It has a brand new walbro 255 in the tank, and the stock fuel pressure regulator. I can only assume fuel pressure is not an issue here, cuz its running too rich, suggesting that fuel pressure is not an issue.
-The valve timing/spark timing must be correct cuz the car runs and drives with fresh plugs and if it wasn't I wouldn't think that would be a possibility.
-The tuning must be correct cuz it was flashed 3 different times on 2 different chips (twice on the first chip, once on the second) by Ion, whom has done tons of fbodies. Also the adapter/chip must be reading properly, cuz if it wasn't the car would go into a failsafe mode, where the check engine light goes on and the fans kick on.
-The chip is set to run the PCM in open loop mode and oxygen sensors were disconnected, ruling that out of being a possibility.
What else is there that would cause running excessivly rich that I am not looking at yet?
Is this thing throwing any check engine lights? The best thing to do is get a scan tool on the car and look at every sensor to make sure thye are reading something reasonable.
Other than that it may be a tuning issue but first you need to check how each sensor is reading first.
