well, plugs are out, and no carbon tracking found. The plugs look brown in the insulator, and a little bit of black carbon on the outside meta ring part. The electrode looks good. they were all tight. The only thing that I can think of is the di electric grease causing the problems. What gives? why the crappy miss at idle?

 

Now that ya got um out gap them to .035 before ya put um back in.

 

Do some reading ... its good for the brain. Dont forget to read about polarization and the inverse of it. Also about the frequency.. it has to to the the voltage rise time. Again you need to read about it.

Marvin

 

Where in the secondary ignition system is there alternating current?? It's all DC with low amps otherwise it would kill ya with that much voltage when ya got bit by the spark. But ya already knew that,I could tell.

Do the research to see if there is more than one type of dielectric grease!!!!!!

 

Valid question.... Alternating energy can happen above or bellow electric ground level. For example. you have a 1 volt of positive Direct Current, then you bring it up to ten volts... then let it drop to 1 volt again. That change in voltage becomes a 9 volt alternating voltage. It may have been solely on the positive side but never the less it was alternating. now throw in alternating up and down in a given period of time... and it becomes a frequency. In other words its the change of voltage over a period of time what makes it an alternating voltage.... or current. Depending on what values you maybe working with... volts? amps? Our ignition coils use a similar design to the CRT Television sets (good ole tube display). converting a lower voltage to a higher... the do it at somewhere of the 28kilo hertz frequency....and its either above or below zero voltage.. I cant remember anymore.

to make it simple.. it would look like an alternating current riding on top of a direct current. filter out the direct current with a capacitor.. and the Alternating current remains... thats what got me into doing some reading about this dielectric stuff. It will store direct current but when the voltage swings in the other direction... it will discharge it to the opsite side or direction if you will... thats how capacitors work and they are made with dielectric materials inside.

Marvin


Yeah I need to research more about dielectric grease. its time consuming though but I guess its good for the brain. Maybe I find something interesting.. I dont know just yet.

Marvin

 

well, let us know what you find! for now, I am puttin new plugs in without the die electric grease. I don't want to dick with this again!

 

Oh I just read your post again..... Where is the alternating current?... at the ignition coils output. and the low amps dont matter much. is the time you get exposed to the high voltage that WILL kill you. You can deliver a huge electric shock with a 1.5 volt battery. It doesnt take much voltage to overcome the electricity generated by the brain and if exposed long enough to it... your respiratory and circulatory system could be halted... thereby bringing you to a horrible death.... just elevate that 1.5 volt to say 50k volts... the amps will be totally insignificant yes... now strap your self to the high voltage electric output and flip the switch... with just one 1.5 volt battery supplying the power... its deadly I am telling you and NO DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. ITS JUST AN EXAMPLE of what electricity can do for you.....do not try it ever nor on someone else.


Marvin

 

well, got the new plugs in, but still issues. It runs better, idle is smoother, although not as smooth as I would like. Anywhoo, seemed to run good. I took her out for a spin. Pulled hard. Still shakes a bit, but not bad. Got back home, and poped open the hood. Still F*ing acring. Only once in a couple seconds, but still arcing between the boot end and the metal hex part of the plug. Its like glowing, not a bright arc. I wiped off all the die electric grease off the wires, and didn't put any on the plugs. Is there some kind of barrier I can put between the metal part of the plug and the wire boot? This is really anoying! I just spend the whole fricken day doing this. I put rapidfire #14 in. they are ac delcos. Any suggestions? I know a lot of people have them glowing like mine, so I know it is common.
Thanks
Cody

 

Gap them to .035 and see,ya tried everything else,so what ya got to loose. If they are platinum that may be the whole problem. If it's still shaking it is still missing.

 

Don't recon ya spent much time around DC stationary generators,ya know the ones with the big Cat 992 V-8 diesels pulling them. 1500DCV and 1 amps won't kill with just a hit. It will however make ya wonder what ya are doing on your back on the floor. It will also make a pretty light show at 480 DCV and make ya hurt yourself getting away from it. 480DCV and 20 amps will kill ya from just a bite.
There is no AC current at the coil wire going to the distributor
Charge up a condenser for a set of points and let it hit ya that's fun. I use to charge um up and leave them on the work bench,somebody will pick it up and let out a yell.

 

In electronics... the sentence "Direct voltage or current" refers to a value of energy that does not change....... A good example is the battery in your car... when left alone the voltage wil have a constant voltage and it will be called "Direct Current with a Voltage value that does not change polarity" The voltage and the the current from the coil to the distribuitor are continuously changing when the engine is runing. Its very easy to comprehend... it goes from zero volts to whatever and then back down to zero... and then up again. it does not stay at same level. It may however alternate on the positive side or the negative side without ever going down to the oposite side of the voltage polarity. I think you are confusing "Direct current" with "Same Polarity" You can have voltage swinging up and down a lot without changing polarity... but its the act of ondulating or spiking what makes it "alternating".

in other words It has alternating values.... it goes from on to off and then back to on... etc etc etc , my friend thats whats called Alternating.


The alternating voltage's polarity may remain on the positive side or the negative side but its still alternating.

Also when you use the word "Current" are you refering to "amperage"" or to Voltage?
In electronics Current is the amperage or the intensity of the electrons flowing from point A to point B. Everytime the Magnetic field collapses and delivers a high voltage spike.... The "Current" spikes too when the voltage flows from the coil down to the nearest ground, regardles of what path it may take. Its a very brief moment but the "amps go from none... to whatever the energy stored is being discharged. Thats a function of Voltage, resistance and energy flow.

That is explained the the Ohms Law.

You can have Direct current with alternating voltage.... You can have Direct voltage with alternating current and you can also have alternating voltage with alternating current..... and some other stuff... as you can see its a lot more complicated than just Discharging a Capacitor and calling it direct current.... When you short the polaritys there is a discharge of stored energy during a very short period of time... the "current" went from Zero to Maximum and then Back to Zero after the Capacitor's stored energy is depleted.... that in no way my friend ... can be called Direct current. Are you still with me on this one? The polarity of the current flow may have remain unchanged but the values of energy have gone from High to none. I am not going to try to explain it again but Radio Shack sells some cheap books.

Have you ever seen the "voltage image" on an oscilloscope screen? if it remains constant then its "Direct" if its spiking or ondulating then its not direct.

This is the last time I will reply to you by they way. I am not here to give you a course of fundamental electronics because you will figtht me all the way up and you refuse to understand the meaning of Direct and alternating. I think you are talking about polarity... positive or negative.

So lets call it a day. I am tired and want to read other stuff.

Marvin

 

DC= car
AC= house

 

We once had a Civic in 1990 and when I changed the plugs, I noticed a brown coating on the insulators. Hard to describe it but to me it seemed as though the insulators were leaking where they seal at the metal hex base. So I sent them back to Champion with a note. They sent me a letter saying the problem was from a "corona effect". They went further to explain that when atmospheric conditions were just right(did not say what "right" was) the plugs and or the wires would glow like the corona wire inside a copier.

It's been a long time obviously and my memory is not what it used to be. I will look to see if I still have the paper but you know how that goes.

Try googling different plug web sites for corona effect. Cause I don't know what if anything you could do to stop it IF it is the problem.

I also suggest you might try going back temporarily to the stock ignition components if for nothing else but to see if the problem subsides.

I stopped following this thread once Mr. Knowitall got involved so if I ask a question that you answered already I appologize. Have you put the standard plugs from AC Delco back in?

Here are some articles I just googled that may have some bearing on your situation. I hope it helps.

http://www.vitekperformance.com/tech...ndamentals.asp

This one addresses the brown film in the first paragraph
http://www.densoiridium.com/howtoreadusedplugs.php

This one was informative since it also talked about contamination from coolant. We all know coolant damages plug wires but I had no idea it was "conductive".
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/DavidKucharczyk/ignition.html

"google" spark plugs you must. May the force be with you. Just watched the latest Star Wars movie last night and I have Yoda on the brain.

And don't forget the power of the "ignore list".

See ya

Dave

 

Deeet Deeet da deeet deeet. Morse code for this just in. I was reading another post: This one. http://groups.msn.com/AllAutomotiveQ...40146219101456

Down at the bottom of the last post it mentions "flash over". I got tired of reading this stuff so do a search for spark plug flash over and see what comes up.

Found out the most common cause of "flash over" is a gap that is too wide. Try closing up the gap.

In addition, NGK says this regarding after market high powered CD ignitions. " We encourage the use of such systems, but only on modified or older non-computer controlled vehicles."
See it here: http://www.ngkspark.com.au/tech_inde...g_analysis.htm

How very interesting.

Sorry I'm a pain

Dave

 

well, I don't have the spark plugs touching each other, as they have been put in wire loom, and then electrical taped over. I did have problems with my taylor wires arcing between each other. So I went with MSD and put them in loom, and taped them the whole length. But, What scares me, is I just replaced the opti. I disconected the wires from the opti, then had to pull the water pump off. The wires got soaked in coolant. I wiped them off with a rag, but I doubt that was good enought. Who fricken knew coolant was conductive? I don't see any crossover arcs at the opti though. Any suggestions?