Cams for my 1997 Camaro z28 and performance chips...
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Cams for my 1997 Camaro z28 and performance chips...
I have 1997 camaro z28 it has the lt1 as you all know. The owner before me installed pace setter headers and a borla cat-back exhaust system. I also put a cheapy cold air intake on it. My question is what brand of cam or kind of cam would give me the most performance. With the headers cammin this car should be sick... Also I want to look at performance chips. My engine also has almost 114,000 miles on it. Is there any way I can still cam it and add a performance chips without blowin it??? Im lookin at the crane 104227 right now because it came as recomended and also because im 17 and on a budget so with install which i assume will be alot 285.99 isnt a bad price, thanks and plz give me suggestions...
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 230
From: Katy, TX
any of the 12 threads on cam selection on the 1st 3 pages of this area of the board would probably have your answer.
Get the GM 847 or similar used from the for sale section for $150ish if all you're after is peak HP numbers and sound.
If you don't have the money to spend on a lot of supporting mods like stall, gears, head work, etc. get the comp 305.
You need a program, not a chip, its mail order or take it an have it dyno tuned after the cam install. $150-300.
Get the GM 847 or similar used from the for sale section for $150ish if all you're after is peak HP numbers and sound.
If you don't have the money to spend on a lot of supporting mods like stall, gears, head work, etc. get the comp 305.
You need a program, not a chip, its mail order or take it an have it dyno tuned after the cam install. $150-300.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
have you heard any thing about the crane though, and i really dont want anything used, also I want torque low end and mid and also all the increased hp i can take. Sorry im pretty new at cars but im tryin to learn, wut do u mean by program. A tuner???
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 26
From: Falls Church, VA
I have 1997 camaro z28 it has the lt1 as you all know. The owner before me installed pace setter headers and a borla cat-back exhaust system. I also put a cheapy cold air intake on it. My question is what brand of cam or kind of cam would give me the most performance. With the headers cammin this car should be sick... Also I want to look at performance chips. My engine also has almost 114,000 miles on it. Is there any way I can still cam it and add a performance chips without blowin it??? Im lookin at the crane 104227 right now because it came as recomended and also because im 17 and on a budget so with install which i assume will be alot 285.99 isnt a bad price, thanks and plz give me suggestions...
You can order a custom cam through Crane and if you use any of the stock lobes from their catalog, it's about the same price as one of their regular cams. You call Crane, tell them what you want, they will give you a custom part number, then you call Summit or Jegs and order the cam through them. Just make sure you order new valve springs - the stockers won't stand up to the new cam.
I'm not sure of the procedure to put a cam in an F-body, but if you have to pull the motor anyway, it would be a good time to put new bearings in the bottom end.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 387
From: dallas tx
with stock heads i would not go bigger than comp cams 305. you will need upgraded valve springs and i would also sugest hardend pushrods and roller rockers. also it may not be a good idea to do a cam change on a 114,000 mile motor. take a close look at your cam bearings, if they are worn they will need to be replaced. which pretty much means rebuild time.
performance chips are seldom a good idea. you would be better off with a dyno tune or a mail order tune. i would sugest dyno, it is very hard for someone who has never seen your car to acurately tune it.
performance chips are seldom a good idea. you would be better off with a dyno tune or a mail order tune. i would sugest dyno, it is very hard for someone who has never seen your car to acurately tune it.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
well I dont know how to design a cam, but price wise with the cam and all this other stuff including install what am I lookin at total so I can shoot for it??? Is there any way to get about another 30 hp maybe 40hp if i cam it. Or is that all the Lt1 can get out of it??
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 26
From: Falls Church, VA
well I dont know how to design a cam, but price wise with the cam and all this other stuff including install what am I lookin at total so I can shoot for it??? Is there any way to get about another 30 hp maybe 40hp if i cam it. Or is that all the Lt1 can get out of it??
Cam: $300
Roller Rockers: $400
Computer tune $150-300
Gaskets: $50-100
Fuel Pump: $110
Springs: $200
If you're looking for drag strip performance, you can get more performance out of a performance torque converter if you have an automatic, than you will out of the cam swap.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,628
From: Pgh, PA
First off, your 17, so dont cam it inless you (Or your Dad) have the know how to do it yourselves. DO NOT let your friends work on this car cause they WILL **** it up. I was always the one bailing my idiot friends who "knew" what they were doing, out of a hole, when they messed **** up.
As for cams, they work, think like a see-saw. The more top end power you have, the less bottom end power. And there is a certain point, where on stock heads, it just is not worth it to go any larger on a camshaft. This is usually with cams around the size of a GM847 or a CC306.
The "best" all around cam for a stock cylinder headed car would be the CC503, which makes slightly more power than a CC305, LT4HC, 227, etc. Lopes a little harder at idle, but has none of the driveabilty issues that bigger cams do.
You can also get a custom ground camshaft from someone such as Bret Bauer, Lloyd Elliot, Joe Overton, etc. These guys can spec out a cam that will generally perform slightly better than an off the shelfer, with similar driveability at a cost of around $100 more. Well worth it in my opinion. Getting a Bauer cam was a good move in my books.
And you might find it confusing, cam shaft specs come in many variations. They will give you the duration as advertised duration and at .050 inches of lift measured off the lifter.
LSA is Lobe Seperation Angle. This is the degree at which the peaks of the lobes are angled from each other. The wider the LSA for a given duration, the less overlap there will be, and in turn a typically smoother idle. Most off the shelf cams are in the 112-114* range, with some dipping to 110* and as high as 116* Some custom grinds go very tight, such as 108* with suprisingly small driveability issues.
Duration is pretty simple, this is just the measurment in degrees, that the valve is open in relation to the crankshaft. Stock cams are around 206* intake and exhaust duration measured at .050. The limit on a stock headed car should be around 230* intake, 236*exhaust. After that, the heads choke it up to much to make it worth it. The hot cam is a 224*/224* I believe? CC503 is a 224*/230*
Lift is the amount that the cam lifts the valves. Be careful as some cams will measure lift with 1.5 rockers and some with 1.6 rockers. Stock stamped steel rockers are 1.5 ratio. It is very common to upgrade to 1.6 ration roller rockers. Be careful as you read valve lifts to make sure your are comparing 1.5 to 1.5, etc. Stock cams lift around .470ish I think? The stock springs can not handle an aftermarket cam. Too much lift causes the springs to bind. You pretty much can run any cam though (Within reason for your build) without worrying about piston to valve clearance. Provided you have the valve springs and proper length pushrods, you cant go wrong running a cam with similar duration but higher lift.
This is a very VERY basic run down of cams, but at least you can better search for what you want now. It takes a lifetime to learn about cams, and Ive only touched the tip of the iceburg. But seriously, if you have any questions, try PMing me or RSKrause as he is very knowladgable about cams. Having been in your position at one point, I strongly suggest the CC503 camshaft. Or a custom grind for stock heads.
A good overall valve spring for any of the cams in the duration/lift range you are looking at are the PAC 918's. They are essentially the same thing as a Comp Beehive spring but without the quality controll issues comp has been having lately. Look at these springs, 10* locks and retainers, the proper valve spring seats, and proper tools to pressurize the cylinders with compressed air as you change the springs. Also change your valve seals while your at it.
I would also not do a cam swap without upgrading the rocker arm studs to Comp Hi-Tech (Same as ARP) 7/16" studs. And then buy the 1.6 roller rockers accordingly to match the 7/16" studs.
A quality rocker arm is the Comp Pro Magnums, however, they are expensive. Many have gotten by on cheaper aluminum units such as those that come with the Hot Cam kit, but if your going to do it, do it once. There are Self Aligning and Non Self Alinging rocker arms. For a stock cam, self aligning rocker arms are fine, but with an aftermarket more aggressive cam, non self alinging rockers should be used. They control the valve better/more reliably. This also calls for the need though for pushrod guideplates, which bolt on under the rocker arm studs (which you SHOULD be replacing anyways
)
Commonly used pushrod guide plates are the GM Performance Parts guideplates for the LT1/LT4 engines. These have had issues with their hardening. Some of them are hardened metal, some are not. Which CAN cause issues, but not common. Another option is the use of ISKY Adjustable guide plates. These are a little trickier/time consuming to setup but offer very high quality fit/finish. And lastly, regular SBC guide plates will not work. Well, very few do. Adjustable sets will work, but thats about it.
It also should be reccomended to upgrade the pushrods if your doing a cam swap. They are around $100 for a high quality one piece set. Stock length is 7.200 inches. This should be checked with the new cam in, to verify length is doesnt need to be changed. A pushrod lengther checking tool is around 15$ from summit or jegs. An example of a good pushrod for your set up would be a Comp Hi-Tech pushrod, their around 100$, hardened, one piece design, thicker wall, etc. Very nice piece.
With as many miles as are on your car, your going to want to replace the timing chain. Several options, the LT4 Extreme Duty, a stock replacement, or converting over to an electric waterpump (Which will give you around 10 more HP) and running a doulble roller timing chain such as that available from Cloyes. On an every day car, I would NOT do the e-waterpump, too risky.
And once you have that cam in, the car will need tuned. Forget the Hyopertech ****, they are pretty worthless. You will need to get the PCM tuned by a professional tuning shop such as PCMforless or MadZ28. They can provide a custom tune specified to all of your modifications.
A few quick points now, if the car has been maintained well, it will probably be alright camming it at this point. But, when you pull the old cam out, its also likely that the front camshaft bearing could be torn up. Its common on LT1's from running the cam drivin waterpump. If this bearing is scored up, your screwed. You can either put the stock cam back in, run it, and hope it lasts, put the new cam in, pray it makes it and doesnt spin a bearing/blow the engine, or pull the motor, take it to a machine shop, and have them replace the cam bearings.
Doing a camshaft swap is not for the faint of heart. Or those that cant afford a full engine rebuild/down time of no vehicle for weeks or even months if something comes up. Machine shops sometimes are VERY slow. But that said, I am glad I did mine. Im a smile ear to ear every time I start it, drive it, beat on it, etc. If you have the tools, money, knowhow, and budget, go for it.
And dont forget the little things like timing cover gaskets, waterpump gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, The Right Stuff silicone sealer, all the special tools (Valve Srping compressor, cylinder pressurizer, etc.)
It will cost ALOT more than you origionally thought, but its one of the most satisfying jobs that can be done. Im 21, and have had my car since I was 16. But seriously, you might want to think twice about jumping into this until you have more money, knowledge, time, etc. PM me if you have any questions. My fingers are cramping, and its late ... Im outta here.
As for cams, they work, think like a see-saw. The more top end power you have, the less bottom end power. And there is a certain point, where on stock heads, it just is not worth it to go any larger on a camshaft. This is usually with cams around the size of a GM847 or a CC306.
The "best" all around cam for a stock cylinder headed car would be the CC503, which makes slightly more power than a CC305, LT4HC, 227, etc. Lopes a little harder at idle, but has none of the driveabilty issues that bigger cams do.
You can also get a custom ground camshaft from someone such as Bret Bauer, Lloyd Elliot, Joe Overton, etc. These guys can spec out a cam that will generally perform slightly better than an off the shelfer, with similar driveability at a cost of around $100 more. Well worth it in my opinion. Getting a Bauer cam was a good move in my books.
And you might find it confusing, cam shaft specs come in many variations. They will give you the duration as advertised duration and at .050 inches of lift measured off the lifter.
LSA is Lobe Seperation Angle. This is the degree at which the peaks of the lobes are angled from each other. The wider the LSA for a given duration, the less overlap there will be, and in turn a typically smoother idle. Most off the shelf cams are in the 112-114* range, with some dipping to 110* and as high as 116* Some custom grinds go very tight, such as 108* with suprisingly small driveability issues.
Duration is pretty simple, this is just the measurment in degrees, that the valve is open in relation to the crankshaft. Stock cams are around 206* intake and exhaust duration measured at .050. The limit on a stock headed car should be around 230* intake, 236*exhaust. After that, the heads choke it up to much to make it worth it. The hot cam is a 224*/224* I believe? CC503 is a 224*/230*
Lift is the amount that the cam lifts the valves. Be careful as some cams will measure lift with 1.5 rockers and some with 1.6 rockers. Stock stamped steel rockers are 1.5 ratio. It is very common to upgrade to 1.6 ration roller rockers. Be careful as you read valve lifts to make sure your are comparing 1.5 to 1.5, etc. Stock cams lift around .470ish I think? The stock springs can not handle an aftermarket cam. Too much lift causes the springs to bind. You pretty much can run any cam though (Within reason for your build) without worrying about piston to valve clearance. Provided you have the valve springs and proper length pushrods, you cant go wrong running a cam with similar duration but higher lift.
This is a very VERY basic run down of cams, but at least you can better search for what you want now. It takes a lifetime to learn about cams, and Ive only touched the tip of the iceburg. But seriously, if you have any questions, try PMing me or RSKrause as he is very knowladgable about cams. Having been in your position at one point, I strongly suggest the CC503 camshaft. Or a custom grind for stock heads.
A good overall valve spring for any of the cams in the duration/lift range you are looking at are the PAC 918's. They are essentially the same thing as a Comp Beehive spring but without the quality controll issues comp has been having lately. Look at these springs, 10* locks and retainers, the proper valve spring seats, and proper tools to pressurize the cylinders with compressed air as you change the springs. Also change your valve seals while your at it.
I would also not do a cam swap without upgrading the rocker arm studs to Comp Hi-Tech (Same as ARP) 7/16" studs. And then buy the 1.6 roller rockers accordingly to match the 7/16" studs.
A quality rocker arm is the Comp Pro Magnums, however, they are expensive. Many have gotten by on cheaper aluminum units such as those that come with the Hot Cam kit, but if your going to do it, do it once. There are Self Aligning and Non Self Alinging rocker arms. For a stock cam, self aligning rocker arms are fine, but with an aftermarket more aggressive cam, non self alinging rockers should be used. They control the valve better/more reliably. This also calls for the need though for pushrod guideplates, which bolt on under the rocker arm studs (which you SHOULD be replacing anyways
) Commonly used pushrod guide plates are the GM Performance Parts guideplates for the LT1/LT4 engines. These have had issues with their hardening. Some of them are hardened metal, some are not. Which CAN cause issues, but not common. Another option is the use of ISKY Adjustable guide plates. These are a little trickier/time consuming to setup but offer very high quality fit/finish. And lastly, regular SBC guide plates will not work. Well, very few do. Adjustable sets will work, but thats about it.
It also should be reccomended to upgrade the pushrods if your doing a cam swap. They are around $100 for a high quality one piece set. Stock length is 7.200 inches. This should be checked with the new cam in, to verify length is doesnt need to be changed. A pushrod lengther checking tool is around 15$ from summit or jegs. An example of a good pushrod for your set up would be a Comp Hi-Tech pushrod, their around 100$, hardened, one piece design, thicker wall, etc. Very nice piece.
With as many miles as are on your car, your going to want to replace the timing chain. Several options, the LT4 Extreme Duty, a stock replacement, or converting over to an electric waterpump (Which will give you around 10 more HP) and running a doulble roller timing chain such as that available from Cloyes. On an every day car, I would NOT do the e-waterpump, too risky.
And once you have that cam in, the car will need tuned. Forget the Hyopertech ****, they are pretty worthless. You will need to get the PCM tuned by a professional tuning shop such as PCMforless or MadZ28. They can provide a custom tune specified to all of your modifications.
A few quick points now, if the car has been maintained well, it will probably be alright camming it at this point. But, when you pull the old cam out, its also likely that the front camshaft bearing could be torn up. Its common on LT1's from running the cam drivin waterpump. If this bearing is scored up, your screwed. You can either put the stock cam back in, run it, and hope it lasts, put the new cam in, pray it makes it and doesnt spin a bearing/blow the engine, or pull the motor, take it to a machine shop, and have them replace the cam bearings.
Doing a camshaft swap is not for the faint of heart. Or those that cant afford a full engine rebuild/down time of no vehicle for weeks or even months if something comes up. Machine shops sometimes are VERY slow. But that said, I am glad I did mine. Im a smile ear to ear every time I start it, drive it, beat on it, etc. If you have the tools, money, knowhow, and budget, go for it.
And dont forget the little things like timing cover gaskets, waterpump gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, The Right Stuff silicone sealer, all the special tools (Valve Srping compressor, cylinder pressurizer, etc.)
It will cost ALOT more than you origionally thought, but its one of the most satisfying jobs that can be done. Im 21, and have had my car since I was 16. But seriously, you might want to think twice about jumping into this until you have more money, knowledge, time, etc. PM me if you have any questions. My fingers are cramping, and its late ... Im outta here.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,174
From: MI
I ran the Crane compu-cam 2050 series LT1. It has a 115 degree lsa and 218/ 218* valve event duration @ 0.050". You also need the spring upgrade. Really liked the cam. It was easy to tune and moved the rpm range up. Also ran it with a p600b back then. Best running and easy tune cam I had. Also, I use LT1_edit verson 2.2. Hope this helps. B. (97ss - 383 - D1)
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11
Thank you all for giving advice. And also is there any way I can get the the front cam shaft bearing checked before trying to go through with this??? Also is there a grand total plus labor, because I wont be doing this myself im 17 for gods sake and have never seen a block torn apart. I mean i really wanna do this because its one of the only things I know of that will truly give you more ponies, and what can I say we have a 2007 shelby cobra gt 500 at my school, So i wanna shot at him if thats possible lol... I can already take a new gt, and the old 4.6 liter gt's but I wanna put down *** whoopens... Thanks for all your help.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,245
From: Ocala, Florida
Advanced induction has a nice writeups on off the shelf cams and their custom cam kits on their website. Even if you don't go with a cam from them it should give you a decent idea about what to expect out of the cams and how big to go.
And I did my 1st cam swap when I was 17, I'm 21 now with 4 cam swaps and head swaps under my belt with the stock 101k mile shortblock. I vote for doing it yourself, it's not that hard to do if you read up on it and take your time.
And I did my 1st cam swap when I was 17, I'm 21 now with 4 cam swaps and head swaps under my belt with the stock 101k mile shortblock. I vote for doing it yourself, it's not that hard to do if you read up on it and take your time.
