1.6 RR install.....sorry....
03-29-2004, 01:40 PM
#1
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Location: jacksonville, FL
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1.6 RR install.....sorry....
I know you guys hate questions on RR, but…
I just installed my new fully assembled heads, and I got the comp cams 1.6 nsa RR as well as comp r lifters and gmpp guideplates, blah blah all the bells and whistles. I’m scared to install the roller rockers myself because I don’t know much about TDC. I’ve checked online, and there aren’t very many install guides for people in my position. All I know is this, my crank gear dot is at 12, my cam gear dot is at 6, and the cam dowel is in the 3 o clock position, and right now cylinder 1 and 6 are at the top or TDC. That’s ALL I know. Please help me as I need a little confidence going in to this install. I’m a perfectionist and want to do it as well as possible. TIA
I just installed my new fully assembled heads, and I got the comp cams 1.6 nsa RR as well as comp r lifters and gmpp guideplates, blah blah all the bells and whistles. I’m scared to install the roller rockers myself because I don’t know much about TDC. I’ve checked online, and there aren’t very many install guides for people in my position. All I know is this, my crank gear dot is at 12, my cam gear dot is at 6, and the cam dowel is in the 3 o clock position, and right now cylinder 1 and 6 are at the top or TDC. That’s ALL I know. Please help me as I need a little confidence going in to this install. I’m a perfectionist and want to do it as well as possible. TIA
03-29-2004, 02:02 PM
#3
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With the crank at 12:00, and the cam at 6:00 (dot-to-dot), you should be at #6 TDC. You need to get both gears in the 12:00 position for #1 TDC. (i.e., rotate the crank one full turn.)
Once you have that, go ahead and adjust both valves for cylinder number 1. With the #1 cyl adjusted, go ahead and rotate the crank 90 degrees (to 3:00), and go to the next cylinder in the firing order (8). Keep rotating the crank in 90 degree increments until you have all valves adjusted.
Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
Once you have that, go ahead and adjust both valves for cylinder number 1. With the #1 cyl adjusted, go ahead and rotate the crank 90 degrees (to 3:00), and go to the next cylinder in the firing order (8). Keep rotating the crank in 90 degree increments until you have all valves adjusted.
Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
Last edited by Alex94TAGT; 03-29-2004 at 04:14 PM.
03-29-2004, 02:03 PM
#5
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Crank gear dot at:
12'o'clock = 1,6 TDC
3'o'clock = 5,8 TDC
6'o'clock = 7,4 TDC
9'o'clock = 3,2 TDC
12'o'clock = 1,6 TDC
3'o'clock = 5,8 TDC
6'o'clock = 7,4 TDC
9'o'clock = 3,2 TDC
To adjust the valves you need to have the #1 cylinder at TDC, and by that I mean the the cylinder is about to fire the spark plug and it is at the top of its travel.
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Then you turn the crank one full revolution, now you are at #6TDC
you can now adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
Last edited by rpm4lalo; 03-29-2004 at 02:32 PM.
03-29-2004, 02:16 PM
#7
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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How is that misleading? No matter which stroke (compression, power) the pistons are still at the same travel. Just because one is on the compression stroke doesn't mean the other piston isn't at TDC. A piston doesn't only hit TDC 1 time in 4 strokes.
Not trying to argue, just asking. As long as the piston is at TDC, I see no reason of why the lifters wouldn't be at the base of the cam lobes. It should work perfectly fine.
Not trying to argue, just asking. As long as the piston is at TDC, I see no reason of why the lifters wouldn't be at the base of the cam lobes. It should work perfectly fine.
03-29-2004, 02:19 PM
#8
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Look at the pushrods on the #1 cylinder. As the crank is coming around to 12 o'clock the exhaust (left) pushrod will NOT be moving up if the cylinder is coming to TDC. ie. both valves are closed so the cylinder can fire. If you see the exhaust pushrod move up as the crank is coming around to 12 o'clock then then the #6 cylinder is heading towards TDC.
Last edited by rpm4lalo; 03-29-2004 at 05:26 PM.
03-29-2004, 02:23 PM
#9
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Not trying to argue, just asking. As long as the piston is at TDC, I see no reason of why the lifters wouldn't be at the base of the cam lobes. It should work perfectly fine.
Last edited by rpm4lalo; 03-29-2004 at 05:28 PM.
03-29-2004, 02:25 PM
#10
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man, I'm even more 
than I was before with all these contradictons in this thread. So if I had Lloyd Eliott fully assemble my heads with the springs and the valves and all, then why aren't my valves dropping into the cylinder right now? What's keeping them in? I need to adjust them tonight because I lubed up the cam and lifters 2 days ago, and they are probably bone dry by now.
than I was before with all these contradictons in this thread. So if I had Lloyd Eliott fully assemble my heads with the springs and the valves and all, then why aren't my valves dropping into the cylinder right now? What's keeping them in? I need to adjust them tonight because I lubed up the cam and lifters 2 days ago, and they are probably bone dry by now.
03-29-2004, 02:31 PM
#11
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So if I had Lloyd Eliott fully assemble my heads with the springs and the valves and all, then why aren't my valves dropping into the cylinder right now? What's keeping them in?
Since Lloyd changed the valvesprings for you, you don't have to worry about them falling into the cylinder.
I was just trying to explain one method I use to adjust the valves.
03-29-2004, 02:36 PM
#12
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Just read up on this. 
Adjusting Valves and Zero Lash
Zero lash is when you go from having slack between the lifter, pushrod and rocker arm, to the exact point of no slack. The lifter needs to be on the base of the lobe when setting valve lash. When a cylinder is at TDC, both lifters should be at the bottom of their travel (base of the cam lobe).
Gauging zero lash by hand is not an exact science. When setting the valve lash with the engine not running, you can get close enough by doing the "spin the pushrod" method. Loosen the rocker arm until you can feel slack in the pushrod to rocker arm. Spin the pushrod with your fingers while tighening the rocker arm back down. When you BEGIN to feel drag while spinning the pushrod, you are at zero lash. Once zero lash is reached, stop and add your preload. DO NOT go back and try to feel the adjustment. The lifter will immediately begin to bleed down a little. Tension on the pushrod will relax and this will make it seem like your adjustment did not work. If you want to recheck zero lash, you must loosen the rocker arm nut and tighten it down again while spinning the pushrod as before. At that point you want to set the preload and LEAVE IT ALONE.
The hydraulic lifter has an internal plunger that has a specific amount of travel. The purpose of preload is to compress the plunger so the pushrod will be centered within that travel. With stock lifters, turning the rocker nut another 1/2 to 3/4 turn, will normally put you in the ballpark for quiet operation without being too tight (specific lifters like the Comp Cams "Comp R's", may have less internal travel. 1/4 to 1/2 turn preload is usually enough). Too tight - the valves will not completely close and you will lose compression. The engine will run rough, if it will run at all. Too loose - the rocker arms will make noise from the slack and pushrods could be dislodged. Possible damage could occur from either extreme.
Engine Running Method
Some like to adjust the rockers while the car is idling. If you wish to do this, loosen one rocker at a time until you can hear it click. Tighten the nut, but don't exert downward pressure on the rocker arm with your socket. At the point when audible clicking is gone, tighten the nut another 1/4 turn for your preload.
Engine Not Running Methods
There are several methods for setting the lash with the engine not running and are listed below.
Method 1
If you have never had the crank hub off (or know for sure that it's orientation is correct), you can use the arrow that is on the balancer to tell you where you are. You don't have to spin the crank every 90º with this method.
When the arrow is at 12 o'clock you will be at either #1 or #6 TDC. You might have trouble identifying whether #1 or #6 is at TDC when the crank arrow is at 12 o'clock. Probably the easiest way is to look over the other valves. Compare them to the charts below, showing which can be adjusted. Any valve that can be adjusted should be UP. Valves that are not to be adjusted will be in varying degrees of being open or DOWN. I used to say to look at the valves on the #1 and #6 cylinders, but sometimes it can be difficult to tell by those cylinders only. After looking at the charts below and your valves, you should have it figured out rather quickly.
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Rotate the crank one revolution until the pointer is again at 12 o'clock. This will let you adjust the remainder of the valves. If you did #1 the previous time, you should be now at #6 TDC.
When at #6 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
Method 2
If you want to set the lash by bringing each cylinder to TDC, watch the valves and the pointer on the balancer and follow the Firing order:
1-8-4-3
6-5-7-2
Adjust both intake and exhaust of the cylinder that is at TDC. You will have to make 2 revolutions of the crank, stopping at 1/4 (90º) turn intervals for each cylinder.
Method 3
Another cylinder by cylinder method that does not require looking at the balancer position, follows:
(A remote starter switch is quite helpful)
Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation until the exhaust lifter for a cylinder starts to move up, then adjust the intake valve to zero lash and add your preload. Turn the engine over again until the intake opens completely and then is almost all the way back down. Now, set the exhaust valve to zero lash and add your preload. Continue the above procedure for each cylinder until all valves are adjusted to the same amount of preload. This procedure will work for any hydraulic lifter cam with adjustable rocker arms.
Poly Locks
Here is something additional for those that use "poly locks" (typically used with roller rockers).
Since the poly lock is not a prevailing torque fastener like the nut used with the stock rocker and ball arrangement, it spins freely on the rocker stud. This gives you an advantage to finding zero lash. With the allen lock backed off, spin down the nut until it just stops. This is very close, if not right on zero lash in most cases. Check your pushrod for proper movement and play with it to get a feeling just how snug or loose the nut should be to obtain zero lash. Once you do that, you can just use the nut to reach zero lash and not have to worry about messing with the troublesome pushrod. This will speed up your valve adjustment.
Another aide is to make a mark on the top of the nut so that you can easily see how far you have turned the nut. I always found it a little difficult to obtain the exact amount of rotation on the nuts under the cowl, because of there being less room to swing a ratchet or other tool handle. I used a little dab of white paint on the top and was easily able to tell when I made a half turn or whatever was needed. I could also just use a wrench to tighten the nuts, then throw the allen key on it and snug the set screw down.
Some like to run the allen set screw down and then tighten it and the nut together. Whichever method works and stays tight for you should be fine. With all the variables in making adjustments to hydraulic lifters like the number of turns for preload, methods of finding zero lash and trying to see what you are doing under the cowl, slight errors are common. Just try to be as consistent as possible and use the method that works best for you.
Shoebox
Adjusting Valves and Zero Lash
Zero lash is when you go from having slack between the lifter, pushrod and rocker arm, to the exact point of no slack. The lifter needs to be on the base of the lobe when setting valve lash. When a cylinder is at TDC, both lifters should be at the bottom of their travel (base of the cam lobe).
Gauging zero lash by hand is not an exact science. When setting the valve lash with the engine not running, you can get close enough by doing the "spin the pushrod" method. Loosen the rocker arm until you can feel slack in the pushrod to rocker arm. Spin the pushrod with your fingers while tighening the rocker arm back down. When you BEGIN to feel drag while spinning the pushrod, you are at zero lash. Once zero lash is reached, stop and add your preload. DO NOT go back and try to feel the adjustment. The lifter will immediately begin to bleed down a little. Tension on the pushrod will relax and this will make it seem like your adjustment did not work. If you want to recheck zero lash, you must loosen the rocker arm nut and tighten it down again while spinning the pushrod as before. At that point you want to set the preload and LEAVE IT ALONE.
The hydraulic lifter has an internal plunger that has a specific amount of travel. The purpose of preload is to compress the plunger so the pushrod will be centered within that travel. With stock lifters, turning the rocker nut another 1/2 to 3/4 turn, will normally put you in the ballpark for quiet operation without being too tight (specific lifters like the Comp Cams "Comp R's", may have less internal travel. 1/4 to 1/2 turn preload is usually enough). Too tight - the valves will not completely close and you will lose compression. The engine will run rough, if it will run at all. Too loose - the rocker arms will make noise from the slack and pushrods could be dislodged. Possible damage could occur from either extreme.
Engine Running Method
Some like to adjust the rockers while the car is idling. If you wish to do this, loosen one rocker at a time until you can hear it click. Tighten the nut, but don't exert downward pressure on the rocker arm with your socket. At the point when audible clicking is gone, tighten the nut another 1/4 turn for your preload.
Engine Not Running Methods
There are several methods for setting the lash with the engine not running and are listed below.
Method 1
If you have never had the crank hub off (or know for sure that it's orientation is correct), you can use the arrow that is on the balancer to tell you where you are. You don't have to spin the crank every 90º with this method.
When the arrow is at 12 o'clock you will be at either #1 or #6 TDC. You might have trouble identifying whether #1 or #6 is at TDC when the crank arrow is at 12 o'clock. Probably the easiest way is to look over the other valves. Compare them to the charts below, showing which can be adjusted. Any valve that can be adjusted should be UP. Valves that are not to be adjusted will be in varying degrees of being open or DOWN. I used to say to look at the valves on the #1 and #6 cylinders, but sometimes it can be difficult to tell by those cylinders only. After looking at the charts below and your valves, you should have it figured out rather quickly.
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Rotate the crank one revolution until the pointer is again at 12 o'clock. This will let you adjust the remainder of the valves. If you did #1 the previous time, you should be now at #6 TDC.
When at #6 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
Method 2
If you want to set the lash by bringing each cylinder to TDC, watch the valves and the pointer on the balancer and follow the Firing order:
1-8-4-3
6-5-7-2
Adjust both intake and exhaust of the cylinder that is at TDC. You will have to make 2 revolutions of the crank, stopping at 1/4 (90º) turn intervals for each cylinder.
Method 3
Another cylinder by cylinder method that does not require looking at the balancer position, follows:
(A remote starter switch is quite helpful)
Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation until the exhaust lifter for a cylinder starts to move up, then adjust the intake valve to zero lash and add your preload. Turn the engine over again until the intake opens completely and then is almost all the way back down. Now, set the exhaust valve to zero lash and add your preload. Continue the above procedure for each cylinder until all valves are adjusted to the same amount of preload. This procedure will work for any hydraulic lifter cam with adjustable rocker arms.
Poly Locks
Here is something additional for those that use "poly locks" (typically used with roller rockers).
Since the poly lock is not a prevailing torque fastener like the nut used with the stock rocker and ball arrangement, it spins freely on the rocker stud. This gives you an advantage to finding zero lash. With the allen lock backed off, spin down the nut until it just stops. This is very close, if not right on zero lash in most cases. Check your pushrod for proper movement and play with it to get a feeling just how snug or loose the nut should be to obtain zero lash. Once you do that, you can just use the nut to reach zero lash and not have to worry about messing with the troublesome pushrod. This will speed up your valve adjustment.
Another aide is to make a mark on the top of the nut so that you can easily see how far you have turned the nut. I always found it a little difficult to obtain the exact amount of rotation on the nuts under the cowl, because of there being less room to swing a ratchet or other tool handle. I used a little dab of white paint on the top and was easily able to tell when I made a half turn or whatever was needed. I could also just use a wrench to tighten the nuts, then throw the allen key on it and snug the set screw down.
Some like to run the allen set screw down and then tighten it and the nut together. Whichever method works and stays tight for you should be fine. With all the variables in making adjustments to hydraulic lifters like the number of turns for preload, methods of finding zero lash and trying to see what you are doing under the cowl, slight errors are common. Just try to be as consistent as possible and use the method that works best for you.
Shoebox
03-29-2004, 02:40 PM
#13
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Posts: 2,442
I did my rocker/spring install for the first time in my life last November. I took the long route but it worked for me...
I did ONE cylinder at a time. Starting with #1 piston at TDC, crank at 12 'o clock position (compression stroke). After each adjustment, I turned the crank another 90 degrees.
I did ONE cylinder at a time. Starting with #1 piston at TDC, crank at 12 'o clock position (compression stroke). After each adjustment, I turned the crank another 90 degrees.
03-29-2004, 02:44 PM
#14
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 186
Oh.... my... gosh...
1) Ibane -- you've been given some faulty information. Like RPM said, although any given piston moves up-and-down twice during an engine cycle, any given cylinder is only at TDC once. TDC is only on the compression stroke, not the exhaust stroke (at least what we're looking for in this thread). I dont think he needs help adjusting valves, he's looking on how to find TDC.
2) 30th ann -- There are some contradictions in this thread because there is more than one way to adjust the valves. If you follow what RPM said in his posts, or what I said in mine, you will be ok. Personally, if you have the timing cover off, it would be easiest just to follow my advice of aligning BOTH the cam/crank dots to 12:00. That is #1 TDC.
3) Your valvespring assembly keeps your valves from falling into the cylinders. Dont worry about that unless you are replacing valvesprings with the heads installed -- it doesnt concern rocker adjustment, or this thread necessarily.
Hope I'm not adding to the confusion. I'll stop here...
1) Ibane -- you've been given some faulty information. Like RPM said, although any given piston moves up-and-down twice during an engine cycle, any given cylinder is only at TDC once. TDC is only on the compression stroke, not the exhaust stroke (at least what we're looking for in this thread). I dont think he needs help adjusting valves, he's looking on how to find TDC.
2) 30th ann -- There are some contradictions in this thread because there is more than one way to adjust the valves. If you follow what RPM said in his posts, or what I said in mine, you will be ok. Personally, if you have the timing cover off, it would be easiest just to follow my advice of aligning BOTH the cam/crank dots to 12:00. That is #1 TDC.
3) Your valvespring assembly keeps your valves from falling into the cylinders. Dont worry about that unless you are replacing valvesprings with the heads installed -- it doesnt concern rocker adjustment, or this thread necessarily.
Hope I'm not adding to the confusion. I'll stop here...
03-29-2004, 02:48 PM
#15
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Zip Tie Island
Posts: 725
Method 1
If you have never had the crank hub off (or know for sure that it's orientation is correct), you can use the arrow that is on the balancer to tell you where you are. You don't have to spin the crank every 90º with this method.
When the arrow is at 12 o'clock you will be at either #1 or #6 TDC. You might have trouble identifying whether #1 or #6 is at TDC when the crank arrow is at 12 o'clock. Probably the easiest way is to look over the other valves. Compare them to the charts below, showing which can be adjusted. Any valve that can be adjusted should be UP. Valves that are not to be adjusted will be in varying degrees of being open or DOWN. I used to say to look at the valves on the #1 and #6 cylinders, but sometimes it can be difficult to tell by those cylinders only. After looking at the charts below and your valves, you should have it figured out rather quickly.
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Rotate the crank one revolution until the pointer is again at 12 o'clock. This will let you adjust the remainder of the valves. If you did #1 the previous time, you should be now at #6 TDC.
When at #6 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
If you have never had the crank hub off (or know for sure that it's orientation is correct), you can use the arrow that is on the balancer to tell you where you are. You don't have to spin the crank every 90º with this method.
When the arrow is at 12 o'clock you will be at either #1 or #6 TDC. You might have trouble identifying whether #1 or #6 is at TDC when the crank arrow is at 12 o'clock. Probably the easiest way is to look over the other valves. Compare them to the charts below, showing which can be adjusted. Any valve that can be adjusted should be UP. Valves that are not to be adjusted will be in varying degrees of being open or DOWN. I used to say to look at the valves on the #1 and #6 cylinders, but sometimes it can be difficult to tell by those cylinders only. After looking at the charts below and your valves, you should have it figured out rather quickly.
When at #1 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 1, 2, 5, 7
Exhaust: 1, 3, 4, 8
Rotate the crank one revolution until the pointer is again at 12 o'clock. This will let you adjust the remainder of the valves. If you did #1 the previous time, you should be now at #6 TDC.
When at #6 TDC you can adjust the following valves:
Intake: 3, 4, 6, 8
Exhaust: 2, 5, 6, 7
Last edited by rpm4lalo; 03-29-2004 at 02:53 PM.