paper filter or k & n
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 446
From: Lincoln Park, MI US
your gonna hear the exact same things in this thread.
some people swear by them, others swear at them, and some, like you, are undecided.
EDIT: If you do go with a K&N style, go with the Holley, that way you wont have to deal with the gasket. Which seems to have a tendency to get moved out of place, leaving small gaps for unfiltered air to get through
some people swear by them, others swear at them, and some, like you, are undecided.
EDIT: If you do go with a K&N style, go with the Holley, that way you wont have to deal with the gasket. Which seems to have a tendency to get moved out of place, leaving small gaps for unfiltered air to get through
Last edited by Freak; Jul 27, 2003 at 01:46 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,308
From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
I'm pretty sure Psychocabbage (one of the board members) dyno'd his car with a K&N and a paper filter, and I think he got 3 or 4 horsepower more with the PAPER filter!
IMO, they're HIGHLY over-rated by K&N and all the speed shops who just want to sell an $80 filter
. But of course, I had to buy one
.................and only after I bought it did I decide it was the biggest waste of money ever
. IMO, a paper filter is probably just fine, and so it costs a few bucks every now and then to replace..................I bet you would hardly spend the money on several paper filters as you would for one K&N
.
IMO, they're HIGHLY over-rated by K&N and all the speed shops who just want to sell an $80 filter
. But of course, I had to buy one.................and only after I bought it did I decide it was the biggest waste of money ever. IMO, a paper filter is probably just fine, and so it costs a few bucks every now and then to replace..................I bet you would hardly spend the money on several paper filters as you would for one K&N.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121
From: New Jersey
Paper Filters flow more air, but dont last as long and once they're dirty you cant use them anymore. Holley and K&N Flow very well and are reusable. So I would think once you're Paper Filter is too Dirty to use, just get a Holley.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 501
From: Chesapeake, VA USA
The K&N is in the corner of my garage somewhere. It fit like ***, showed no dyno gain and let sand past it even when it was sealed properly. I use Frams now and just toss 'em when they get a little dirty.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 330
From: portland, OR
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.
all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,697
From: Bay Area, CA
Originally posted by camaro322hp
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.
all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.
all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,901
From: Houston, Tx USA
Originally posted by camaro322hp
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.
all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
i dunno why so many people hate the k&n so much. i've had nothing but good results with mine. just make sure you put the gasket on right and it WILL seal just fine.
all this talk about paper flowing better, until someone comes up with some empirical data, that is completely bs. just look at the k&n, then look at the paper filter. better yet, do a porosity test on each element. i think i know which one would come out ahead.
but my tests are all in my sig. Heck, I used to think that no filter was better.. I know better now..
as for filtration, cotton gauze is better for FILTRATION hence why its more RESTRICTIVE.
I will be using only AC Delco. I have gotten 23K miles out of mine so far.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 330
From: portland, OR
Originally posted by psychocabbage
I did the tests.. on a dyno.. withing minutes of eachother.. but maybe my car sucks air differently than yours..
but my tests are all in my sig. Heck, I used to think that no filter was better.. I know better now..
as for filtration, cotton gauze is better for FILTRATION hence why its more RESTRICTIVE.
I will be using only AC Delco. I have gotten 23K miles out of mine so far.
I did the tests.. on a dyno.. withing minutes of eachother.. but maybe my car sucks air differently than yours..
but my tests are all in my sig. Heck, I used to think that no filter was better.. I know better now..
as for filtration, cotton gauze is better for FILTRATION hence why its more RESTRICTIVE.
I will be using only AC Delco. I have gotten 23K miles out of mine so far.
anyone can SAY paper flows better, just as you did. maybe you didn't read my post. nobody has shown ANY EMPIRICAL DATA that shows paper flows better, because as i've already said, it doesn't exist. any data would prove otherwise. you can see the porosity difference between filters. as a papermaker myself, i know that paper is very restrictive to air flow. every 10 tons of paper produced at our plant gets tested for porosity (tests the ability of air to pass through the paper). PAPER IS VERY RESTRICTIVE TO AIR FLOW. (based on years of paper testing data).
anyone?
Last edited by camaro322hp; Jul 27, 2003 at 02:23 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,901
From: Houston, Tx USA
look under the reviews.. then read the ones on the filter changes...
dont mean to sound hostile.. just got back from being on the road for 24 hours.. hehe
anyways..
My tests on a dyno showed me HP wise, that I made more with paper.
http://207.44.158.24/~admin33/mod.ph...1203&page_id=9
flow rate tests will not really show what your car will do based on its different flow rates... as for the lids, I used them to magnify any possible differences.
In my stealth test, its important to note that the K&N used there was much larger and hence had more surface area.. so that debunked my theory on larger surface area being better as it clearly wasnt.
I should also state that before I tested this, I would always buy a K&N for whatever car I had or some sort of aftermarket kit.
Now I have the AC Delco and will stick with it. The car lately really seems to of awakened. If I can get it to the track here soon and get better times or MPH that before, I will dyno again as it does seem to of gained more power. (my thoughts are that its fully broken in now).
dont mean to sound hostile.. just got back from being on the road for 24 hours.. hehe
anyways..
My tests on a dyno showed me HP wise, that I made more with paper.
http://207.44.158.24/~admin33/mod.ph...1203&page_id=9
flow rate tests will not really show what your car will do based on its different flow rates... as for the lids, I used them to magnify any possible differences.
In my stealth test, its important to note that the K&N used there was much larger and hence had more surface area.. so that debunked my theory on larger surface area being better as it clearly wasnt.
I should also state that before I tested this, I would always buy a K&N for whatever car I had or some sort of aftermarket kit.
Now I have the AC Delco and will stick with it. The car lately really seems to of awakened. If I can get it to the track here soon and get better times or MPH that before, I will dyno again as it does seem to of gained more power. (my thoughts are that its fully broken in now).
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 330
From: portland, OR
in the link, it seems like the highest HP was with the k&n????
Full AMSOIL Fluids with MTI Air Lid and K&N Air Filter #1 (HERE THE COMPUTER SEEMS TO OF GONE INTO OPEN LOOP) 1/4/2003 1:43:44 PM 318.9 338.7
what does the caveat about open loop mean? how did you infer that it was in open loop? why would that make this test invalid?
anyway, i guess before this turns into a 5 page argument about air filters, i'll just say that we can agree to disagree. i can't convince you k&n is better, and you won't convince me that paper is better. maybe we should just leave it at that, and we both have bad *** cars, no matter what kind of air filter...
Full AMSOIL Fluids with MTI Air Lid and K&N Air Filter #1 (HERE THE COMPUTER SEEMS TO OF GONE INTO OPEN LOOP) 1/4/2003 1:43:44 PM 318.9 338.7
what does the caveat about open loop mean? how did you infer that it was in open loop? why would that make this test invalid?
anyway, i guess before this turns into a 5 page argument about air filters, i'll just say that we can agree to disagree. i can't convince you k&n is better, and you won't convince me that paper is better. maybe we should just leave it at that, and we both have bad *** cars, no matter what kind of air filter...
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,901
From: Houston, Tx USA
Originally posted by camaro322hp
in the link, it seems like the highest HP was with the k&n????
Full AMSOIL Fluids with MTI Air Lid and K&N Air Filter #1 (HERE THE COMPUTER SEEMS TO OF GONE INTO OPEN LOOP) 1/4/2003 1:43:44 PM 318.9 338.7
what does the caveat about open loop mean? how did you infer that it was in open loop? why would that make this test invalid?
anyway, i guess before this turns into a 5 page argument about air filters, i'll just say that we can agree to disagree. i can't convince you k&n is better, and you won't convince me that paper is better. maybe we should just leave it at that, and we both have bad *** cars, no matter what kind of air filter...
in the link, it seems like the highest HP was with the k&n????
Full AMSOIL Fluids with MTI Air Lid and K&N Air Filter #1 (HERE THE COMPUTER SEEMS TO OF GONE INTO OPEN LOOP) 1/4/2003 1:43:44 PM 318.9 338.7
what does the caveat about open loop mean? how did you infer that it was in open loop? why would that make this test invalid?
anyway, i guess before this turns into a 5 page argument about air filters, i'll just say that we can agree to disagree. i can't convince you k&n is better, and you won't convince me that paper is better. maybe we should just leave it at that, and we both have bad *** cars, no matter what kind of air filter...
hehe
sounds good.. but just to explain why I threw out those numbers: mty a/f ratio went PERFECT for the run... not rich not lean and it was never reproduced. I couldnt back the number up while I could on every other run.
