Same engine, same horsepower.

 

How do you know that? Did you pull your motor and dyno it then dyno it in the car? That's the ONLY way you can state that as fact.

 

Or you could have spoken to someone who designed
the motor at GM, I did, he told me 12% M6

 

wut did i tell you? lol

 

THat doesn't work, just because you increase in power doesn't mean it takes more power to move your drivetrain .

Theoretically, lets say they are the gm rating as which we know thier not but lets say they are.

320 * .16 (m6 loss of 16%) = 51.2

320 - 51.2 = 268.8

Now lets say you gained 40 flywheel hp with a new cam

you would calculate it as

320 * .16 = 51.2

360 - 51.2 = 308.2

Not 360 * .16 = 57.6

Just because horsepower increases doesn't mean the power to move your drivetrain does.

 

Thats all theoretical, im not saying the M6 is really a 16% loss, although gm rates it as a 16-18% drivetrain power lose and I believe a 19-22% power loss for autos. But just giving an example to prove my point that your drivetrain does not magically become heavier and you magically get more flywheel hp.

 

So if a bone stock A4 LS1 laid down 300 rwhp, then you actually believe the motor is making 385 HP? (which is 35 HP over the "realistic" LS1 power, and as much as 75 HP higher than rated by GM!! ). I don't think so. I'd say about 18% tops, cause at that loss, you'd see about ~285 rwhp, and that's usually about the lowest most guys see out of their LS1's, and if it's lower, I think it's cause the motor is making less than 350 HP, not because the drivetrain loss is more than 18%.

 

Read the post again, I am no way saying this is carved in stone, that is simply what gm marked it as, not me and im not even sure if that is the correct number. Read fully before you post, I thought I made it clear that it was simply an example.

 

Not to mention, where the hell are you getting 385 horsepower, at least back up what your saying so I can follow along.

 

He's getting 385 from your estimations of drivetrain loss of 19%-22%

The average LS1 dyno's at 300 hp so using the 22% you convert that to fwhp by dividing 300 by .78 which equates to 385fwhp.
Even at 19% that would mean the average LS1 has 370fwhp.

 

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.

 

Why? Is there some sort of parasitic loss? Only thing I can think of that is close to that is the tourque convertor getting viscious friction from the fluid. Other than that, why does it take more power to turn your drivetrain if it always remains the same weight, im not trying to start an argument but rather a discussion so please don't take it as me being a smart ***, if you have information I don't and can back up why you think that is, i'll be more than glad to hear it out and comprehend.

 

Then why does the entire automotive world
rely on percentage and not just say it takes X
amount of HP to run the rest of the drivetrain
on a given car.
And yes it is parasitic loses combined with effeciency.
Thats why M6 is less than A4. Its more effiecent.

 

these are numbers meant to make the SS/WS6 look like there is actually more of a difference from the "base" V8s then there is....

the extra hp in the top of the line models is credited to a less restrictive exhaust and the "functional" ram air which is actually useless on the SS and marginally functional on the WS6.

if you take a bone stock SS and a bone stock Z28 and stick them on the same dyno, they will produce the same numbers or SLIGHTLY different ones...any difference will from the SS exhaust since the ram air (if it worked) wouldnt be of any use on a stationary dyno anyway...

in short, an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1....any actual power difference in the different models will be completely negated once the car is modified with a lid and catback....a Z28 with a lid and loudmouth is EXACTLY the same as an SS with a lid and loudmouth powerwise...

 

Why don't they use real numbers? Well two reasons, for one it reall does all depend on the moving mass, no two cars are gonna be the same, besides those numbers look lower and would be another thing to worry about when advertising a car.

As far as the percentage goes, yes they use percentages to rate the stock rating, the drivetrain loss is static, it does not increase, the same parts are under their and they don't weigh less.

The reason the m6 is lower in drivetrain power loss is because it has less moving parts, nothing needs to be spun up like a tourque convertor.

You take the stock loss of drivetrain being the stock hp and multiply it by that percentage and that is your drivetrain loss. It is not consistent if you have a 1000 hp vehicle and still multiply it by a 16% drivetrain loss, that is insane.

1000 * .16 = 160

I seriously doubt there is that much power loss, it is constant.