Does your LS1 do this?
07-22-2002, 02:16 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,713
Does your LS1 do this?
There are a couple things that my SS does that have me wondering if most if not all of them are like this.
1 - My 6 speed is VERY notchy. It hits in neutral before going in gear. It won't go smoothly into any gear 1-6. It either got a little better or I got a little more used to it since new (probably the later). I've driven a couple other 6 speed F-bodies and both of them shifted nice and smooth. One was a 94 1LE with 3,000 miles driven only for autocross and road race events. The other was a 99 Firehawk with about 40,000 miles.
2 - Under full throttle starts from 1000 to just above 3000 RPM it seems to be holding back some power. Just after I hit 3000 there is a definate power surge that continues until rev limiter. I run name brand 93 octane fuel. I don't have traction control. It's almost like there is a retarded timing condition that gets advanced after 3000 RPM but that's just a guess.
3 - When I accelerate then let off the gas the RPM's stay above 2000 for several seconds even with the clutch pushed in. I get almost no braking from the motor during downshifts. Perhaps this was programmed in to get rid of "drop throttle oversteer". I don't know. I noticed that during last week's trip to the mountains, after I let off the gas, going downhill, using low gear to save brakes, it took about 10 seconds or so before there would be any braking from the engine. As if the computer retarded the timing after 10 seconds of no throttle or something. If I barely blipped the throttle it would take another 10 seconds for the engine tone to change and give any braking effect.
What do you think?
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2002 SS Vert:
SOM - Hurst - black leather - 12 disk changer - SLP dual center exhaust & grill insert
88 Camaro - FOR SALE
License plate - STRKIN (STROKIN was taken of course)
383 stroker
T350 trans (just rebuilt - 4/1/02) - shifts very hard.
373 rear.
Eibach(type) springs
Stiff sway bars Front & Rear
Air shocks in rear
Edelbrock Torker II Manifold
Edelbrock Performer 600CFM carb (w/tune kit)
Mallory 4309 Fuel pressure regulator.
shorty headers into true duals into two big flowmasters under the bumper into your face
When I start my car in the morning, my neighbors DO think the world is coming to an end!
1 - My 6 speed is VERY notchy. It hits in neutral before going in gear. It won't go smoothly into any gear 1-6. It either got a little better or I got a little more used to it since new (probably the later). I've driven a couple other 6 speed F-bodies and both of them shifted nice and smooth. One was a 94 1LE with 3,000 miles driven only for autocross and road race events. The other was a 99 Firehawk with about 40,000 miles.
2 - Under full throttle starts from 1000 to just above 3000 RPM it seems to be holding back some power. Just after I hit 3000 there is a definate power surge that continues until rev limiter. I run name brand 93 octane fuel. I don't have traction control. It's almost like there is a retarded timing condition that gets advanced after 3000 RPM but that's just a guess.
3 - When I accelerate then let off the gas the RPM's stay above 2000 for several seconds even with the clutch pushed in. I get almost no braking from the motor during downshifts. Perhaps this was programmed in to get rid of "drop throttle oversteer". I don't know. I noticed that during last week's trip to the mountains, after I let off the gas, going downhill, using low gear to save brakes, it took about 10 seconds or so before there would be any braking from the engine. As if the computer retarded the timing after 10 seconds of no throttle or something. If I barely blipped the throttle it would take another 10 seconds for the engine tone to change and give any braking effect.
What do you think?
------------------
2002 SS Vert:
SOM - Hurst - black leather - 12 disk changer - SLP dual center exhaust & grill insert
88 Camaro - FOR SALE
License plate - STRKIN (STROKIN was taken of course)
383 stroker
T350 trans (just rebuilt - 4/1/02) - shifts very hard.
373 rear.
Eibach(type) springs
Stiff sway bars Front & Rear
Air shocks in rear
Edelbrock Torker II Manifold
Edelbrock Performer 600CFM carb (w/tune kit)
Mallory 4309 Fuel pressure regulator.
shorty headers into true duals into two big flowmasters under the bumper into your face
When I start my car in the morning, my neighbors DO think the world is coming to an end!
07-22-2002, 07:12 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 266
Well, I just got my first real car (Camaro SS) two days ago...
But...
1) I'm still learning the transmission, so I cant answer that question.
2) There is a sweet power surge after 3k, from what I've noticed... But I figure that firstly - thats just how it works, the car most likely makes the most power after that, right? Secondly, was that from just cruising then gunning it in second? Big difference between gunning it in 2nd when you're in 20 than 30... perhaps you should be in first gear?
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-2002 Red Camaro SS
Chesapeake, Virginia
http://www.HeadRushPerformance.Com
But...
1) I'm still learning the transmission, so I cant answer that question.
2) There is a sweet power surge after 3k, from what I've noticed... But I figure that firstly - thats just how it works, the car most likely makes the most power after that, right? Secondly, was that from just cruising then gunning it in second? Big difference between gunning it in 2nd when you're in 20 than 30... perhaps you should be in first gear?
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-2002 Red Camaro SS
Chesapeake, Virginia
http://www.HeadRushPerformance.Com
07-22-2002, 07:17 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dayton, OH - USA
Posts: 248
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 2002Z28SSConv:
2 - Under full throttle starts from 1000 to just above 3000 RPM it seems to be holding back some power. Just after I hit 3000 there is a definate power surge that continues until rev limiter. I run name brand 93 octane fuel. I don't have traction control. It's almost like there is a retarded timing condition that gets advanced after 3000 RPM but that's just a guess. </font>
2 - Under full throttle starts from 1000 to just above 3000 RPM it seems to be holding back some power. Just after I hit 3000 there is a definate power surge that continues until rev limiter. I run name brand 93 octane fuel. I don't have traction control. It's almost like there is a retarded timing condition that gets advanced after 3000 RPM but that's just a guess. </font>
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2002 Camaro Z/28 LS1 A4 (2.73's)
Sunset Orange Metallic
Fernco, SLP Airlid, K&N Filter, 17" SS 10 Spokes
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1995 Ford Aspire M5
!Torque & !Power
07-22-2002, 08:26 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oman
Posts: 139
3 - When I accelerate then let off the gas the RPM's stay above 2000 for several seconds even with the clutch pushed in. I get almost no braking from the motor during downshifts. Perhaps this was programmed in to get rid of "drop throttle oversteer". I don't know. I noticed that during last week's trip to the mountains, after I let off the gas, going downhill, using low gear to save brakes, it took about 10 seconds or so before there would be any braking from the engine. As if the computer retarded the timing after 10 seconds of no throttle or something. If I barely blipped the throttle it would take another 10 seconds for the engine tone to change and give any braking effect.
What do you think?
[/B][/QUOTE]
I have the same thing too.... with my A4 '00 z28, I let-off gas... put it [N] but the rpm was increasing with the speed!!!
07-22-2002, 09:10 AM
#5
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Memphis, TN, USA
Posts: 1,122
Notchy shifts? Mine is similar, and I've got the Hurst shifter.
Above 3K before real power? Yeah, my A4 did it and now the M6 does it.
Revs stay up? I asked the same question. I was told that the computer keeps the revs up between shifts so you don't lose RPM's when you hit the clutch and shift gears.
Try this some time ... it will freak you out. Run full throttle from a dead stop, powershift into second, and at about 60 - 70 MPH, hit the clutch and out the tranny in neutral and just coast ... I bet your RPMs will climb to about the 3K mark and hang there for a second or two before it realizes that you aren't on the throttle any more and drops back down to idle.
Creepy ...
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2001 TransAm WS6, M6 3.42
HPP, TBB, 160* t-stat, MTI Lid, Holley PowerShot, Flowmaster 80, Port/Polish MAF
2001 Z28
-- R.I.P. - 06/25/02
Above 3K before real power? Yeah, my A4 did it and now the M6 does it.
Revs stay up? I asked the same question. I was told that the computer keeps the revs up between shifts so you don't lose RPM's when you hit the clutch and shift gears.
Try this some time ... it will freak you out. Run full throttle from a dead stop, powershift into second, and at about 60 - 70 MPH, hit the clutch and out the tranny in neutral and just coast ... I bet your RPMs will climb to about the 3K mark and hang there for a second or two before it realizes that you aren't on the throttle any more and drops back down to idle.
Creepy ...
------------------
2001 TransAm WS6, M6 3.42
HPP, TBB, 160* t-stat, MTI Lid, Holley PowerShot, Flowmaster 80, Port/Polish MAF
2001 Z28
-- R.I.P. - 06/25/02
07-22-2002, 09:48 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,713
The notchiness of the shifter - It stops in Neutral for about 0.2 seconds between shifts like the synchros aren't working right. But it never grinds. It just won't go to the next gear, up or down. I figure this would cost me .4 seconds if I took it to the strip and had to shift twice... The Hurst shifter shouldn't be causing it. All it is is a shorter bar bolted to the top of the transmission. Nothing internal. Besides, the Firehawk has the Hurst and it shifts fine. The 1LE doesn't have the Hurst. The only difference is that I've heard the 01-02's come with the Z06 clutch. And both the other cars did have a much shorter travel on the clutch pedal. The throw on my clutch is about twice the length of their's. I figured this must be to compensate for a higher spring tension on the Z06 clutch. Perhaps it's realted to the throw out bearing of the Z06 clutch. I just feel like I'm tearing up the car when I try to pull off a fast shift.
As for the other 2 issues. I think it must be in the programming. It sounds like everybody else's does the same thing. Come to think of it my '97 Z34 did the same thing. I figured it was due to the traction control on it. It took power away from the lower RPM range so that you would maintain traction. Then over around 2500 RPM it really poured on the power. But with the SS it's like somebody turns on a switch at 3200 and lets the other 4 cylinders fire. It's not just coming into the camshaft's peak powerband. That would be way more gradual. It's like you hit a NAWS button. They are probably pulling timing advance out to lower the power below 3200. Or maybe even limiting the injectors. And they probably programmed the other characteristic in too so that you don't lose traction when you left off the gas cornering in a lower gear or during a down shift. A couple of the Vette owners that I autocross with say that the C5 is bad about letting off the gas in a corner. Do it too fast and the back end breaks lose. That was the "drop throttle oversteer" I mentioned above.
Looks like I might have found me a legitimate reason for getting that Diablo/Predator scanner/programmer after all.
As for the other 2 issues. I think it must be in the programming. It sounds like everybody else's does the same thing. Come to think of it my '97 Z34 did the same thing. I figured it was due to the traction control on it. It took power away from the lower RPM range so that you would maintain traction. Then over around 2500 RPM it really poured on the power. But with the SS it's like somebody turns on a switch at 3200 and lets the other 4 cylinders fire. It's not just coming into the camshaft's peak powerband. That would be way more gradual. It's like you hit a NAWS button. They are probably pulling timing advance out to lower the power below 3200. Or maybe even limiting the injectors. And they probably programmed the other characteristic in too so that you don't lose traction when you left off the gas cornering in a lower gear or during a down shift. A couple of the Vette owners that I autocross with say that the C5 is bad about letting off the gas in a corner. Do it too fast and the back end breaks lose. That was the "drop throttle oversteer" I mentioned above.
Looks like I might have found me a legitimate reason for getting that Diablo/Predator scanner/programmer after all.
07-22-2002, 01:29 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 12
I just got mine a little less than a week ago and I'm feeling the same thing with my shifter, mine is also equiped with the Hurst. Like you said it doesn't grind but it feels like your hurting it. I'm guessing it just needs to wear in. I'll be getting a B&M Ripper soon, I'll let you know if that changes anything.
07-22-2002, 01:44 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 75
I'm actually seeing the same thing as you guys, I got a 2002 z28 with no options (stripper), and I notice that the car doesn't tend to engine brake.
It's funny because my 99 TA didn't show this issue.
My shifting is sweet though, I have the stock shifter and it is smooth, my 99TA was tough to get in alot of gears especially 1st and reverse.
Also the car is getting awful gas mileage, I get about 200 miles per tank.
I'm at the 550 mile mark on the odometer.
How is the gas mileage on your cars?
Steve
It's funny because my 99 TA didn't show this issue.
My shifting is sweet though, I have the stock shifter and it is smooth, my 99TA was tough to get in alot of gears especially 1st and reverse.
Also the car is getting awful gas mileage, I get about 200 miles per tank.
I'm at the 550 mile mark on the odometer.
How is the gas mileage on your cars?
Steve
07-22-2002, 02:21 PM
#10
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: St. Clair Shores Mi. USA
Posts: 238
Your shifting problem is most likely the shifter itself. The factory Hurst is not as good as the aftermarket shifters, and it costs twice as much. $325 option vs. $160 for my Hurst Billet. Ofcorse the more you use it the better it gets.
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NBM`98 Formula 6spd,Ram air hood, Hurst billet,FRA,EGR mod,cags delete, Flowmaster catback.
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NBM`98 Formula 6spd,Ram air hood, Hurst billet,FRA,EGR mod,cags delete, Flowmaster catback.
07-22-2002, 02:52 PM
#11
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oman
Posts: 139
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Desolate_Flux:
What is an A4 and M6? Are those transmissions? Or what? I'm new around here =)
</font>
What is an A4 and M6? Are those transmissions? Or what? I'm new around here =)
</font>
M6 = manual trans... with 6 speeds
07-22-2002, 04:02 PM
#12
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: College Station,Texas/ Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,096
This is not related to your question but an important observation I made in your post. You said that you downshift to slow the car down to save brakes? That actually puts more stress on the motor than is necessary and will cause premature engine wear that costs ALOT more to replace than brake pads...my suggestion, use the brakes, easier and more cost effective way to brake 
Rick
Rick
07-22-2002, 04:32 PM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas, US
Posts: 390
Plus using gears to decelereate is bad on you tranny, buddy of mine got picked up for a nascar pit team at of UTI and he said that they force the drivers not to do it, it causes alot of heat and breaks down the tranny.
Oh, and the Power surge after 3k RPM's is the LS1. It is a top end giant, not know for low in torque but high end. Thats why i got my 4.10's
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'02 Red Z28, ebony leather, M6, T-tops, Trac. cont., hurst shifter
Borla (the expensive cut-out), Wisperlid W/K&N, FRA, Cags eliminator, Strange 4.10's, G2 Rear Girdle, Valv. Synthetic 10W-30, Redline gear oil, Fat hurst shift ****, Lead foot
Soon to be:
Alpine Screen, Orion xtr 800.4, xtrpro 1000, Kicker 12L7 in a milhouse, Focal polykev K2's, Focal utopia 6" audiom midrange.
Oh, and the Power surge after 3k RPM's is the LS1. It is a top end giant, not know for low in torque but high end. Thats why i got my 4.10's
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'02 Red Z28, ebony leather, M6, T-tops, Trac. cont., hurst shifter
Borla (the expensive cut-out), Wisperlid W/K&N, FRA, Cags eliminator, Strange 4.10's, G2 Rear Girdle, Valv. Synthetic 10W-30, Redline gear oil, Fat hurst shift ****, Lead foot
Soon to be:
Alpine Screen, Orion xtr 800.4, xtrpro 1000, Kicker 12L7 in a milhouse, Focal polykev K2's, Focal utopia 6" audiom midrange.
07-22-2002, 07:11 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,713
I was driving in the mountains. If I used the brakes the entire 15 miles of downgrade I would have none left. It was more to maintain a low speedthan to slow down. Also, am I wrong? I thought the shifter was just bolted to the top of a shaft coming out of the top of the tranny. Shorter shaft = shorter throw. Is there actually an internal difference with the Hurst shifter?