1quick,
I was referring to the fact that I have seen cars get better results than mine but not by much.
black,
Other than the internet I have never seen 20 to 30 rwhp made by switching to longtubes. Maybe if they installed other equipment along with headers. Of all the LS1'1, LT1,s, L98's I have seen none of them gained that much. Hell most manufacturer's don't even claim that. I am not trying to argue or start a flame war with anyone but I have never seen numbers like I do on the internet.

 

black,
I don't have a tune but I don't have any of the other problems you have mentioned either. Maybe with the tune I could dyno 20 to 30 rwhp with the longtubes but the thread is only talking about installing headers.

 

ok then did you hook up your exhaust to the headers to go to the dyno?



why this thread is only talking about installing the headers


see you cant be that dumb of course you need a tune you dont install a new fuel pump and bitch cause it dont work because it said no where in the instructions to put gas in the tank its common sense!

 

If you've never seen gains of 20-30rwhp over the internet then you have to open your eyes. They are everywhere! You'll find that the ones without good gains either are untuned or have some kind of a problem. And yes the manufacturers do make claims like I said. On TSP's site they claim at least 20rwhp and on the QTP site they claim 18 hp over other LT's. Nothing you have said makes any sense, because good gains with LT's are all over the place. LOL, not trying to be a jerk but open your eyes when you do your searches. If I had the time I could pull up a gazillion posts to show you. This is such a known and easily accessible fact, that it's not even worth debating. Good luck searching!

 

Go back and reread my posts. Only on the internet will you see gains of 20 to 30 rwhp with headers. And to go with your "I need a tune" argument: why don't you just go ahead and put on a set of heads and cam with your headers then you can claim that you got 100 rwhp when you installed your headers. So to end this beating of a dead horse I am going to change my reply: Go out and buy headers. They'll give 30 hp to the weels and your car will run like a raped ape! I've never seen it in person but there are people on the internet that have gained as much as a full second!
By the way I heard that someone is selling some oceanside property in Arizona. You should look into that.

 

I only have dyno #s after headers, but I went from 12.98 to 12.5 with headers and nittos. I say they added a few mph to...so 13-20 hp???

 

You're a lost cause bud! It's true, whether YOU have seen it personally or not. And why wouldn't you get a tune after longtubes? I wouldn't buy LT's without plans of getting my car tuned. When you relocate the O2's you cause your car to run rich. Your car will get bad MPG and will be too rich to show the kinds of gains that everyone sees....we'll except you. When people speak of 20+rwhp gains that is OBVIOUSLY including a tune. They just assume you will be getting your car tuned, since it isn't something you do without one. Who in their right mind would put LT's on their car, to just run around untuned, rich as hell, showing next to no gains?

 

Guy,
You got 3 tenths from the Nitto's and maybe one tenth from the headers. What did you dyno before and after the headers?
Black,
Your right. You have been right all along. I'm sorry. lol.

 

Here's the problem. 90% of the information given on this board is regurgitated from what they read somewhere else. In every thread there will be maybe one or two people who actually post from personal experience. The rest are posts from people who have read "that this Guy saw this". But that Guy got his information from somewhere else on this board. So there is very little concrete evidence. There are people who are in the know and I take their advice but the rest is all BS.
The original thread is that he didn't want any of this "cheap talk" so I gave him my personal experiences with headers. And YES you can see those kind of gains if you do the headers, catback, tune, etc. But headers alone aren't gonna do it. Also explain to me why putting O2's another 12-18 inches farther down is gonna make it run rich? The only problem I have seen is false knock given off by the headers (LT's and shorties).

 

One last thing, did you also tune your car after putting on a catback? After a CAI?

 

I went from 252 cold air / catback to 272 rwhp with LT Hookers through my converter, UNLOCKED.

So over 20+ rwhp gain on an LT1 That was a long time ago tho

 

My experience (because I really don't want to get involved in another flame thread) :

Pacesetter LT's, TSP ORY & Rumbler, SLP lid, K&N, smooth bellows, and a tune by Mike Norris @ Next Level Performance here in Central Florida got me an SAE corrected 346.2 rwhp and 359 rwtq.

A lot of that power was in the tune. Dyno numbers vary from day to day, car to car, dyno to dyno, etc. from all that I've read. Will headers really give you more rear wheel horse power? If your car is tuned right then yes yes yes YES! I baselined at under 300 rwhp after the header install but LS1's have a computer that will "relearn" and mine had not yet relearned after installing the headers etc. So I picked up horsepower from the tune, but also from the headers. How much from each? Who knows. Maybe Mike Norris does. Who cares? Not me, I think if you're going to do work that significantly alters the amount of air going into or out of the motor, you need to do it right, which includes having someone who knows what they're doing strap your baby to a dyno and tune her. Don't want to spend $500 on a dyno tune? Spend less on a mail-tune, or don't be surprised when your car doesn't run as well since you don't want to include a tune in the price of doing the job. For me, it was an expense just like new gaskets.

Abe

 

The guy who lost from the headers must have an LT1 and burned a plug wire on them, because headers = horsepower.

I gained around 20rwhp/10rwtq (low torque because they are 1-7/8" primaries) untuned with my headers and another friend of mine gained 20/30 with LG Motorsports longtubes.

They ALWAYS add alot of power, even without a tune.
It's just the nature of the beast.

Mike

 

This is the last time I am going to talk about this. Abe I couldn't agree with you more. However all I see on here is people quoting peak numbers. My original argument was about power under the curve (and I'm not talking about 2500 rpm either). I gained 7 to the wheels peak but my torque was moved up the powerband and the ramps on the graphs were much steeper with the headers than without. Go and check your dynographs and I'll bet some of you will see that same problem (not all.) This guy wanted to know personal experiences of what they got with headers. I gave him just that and then a few of you wanted to start a flame war. So to the guy who started this thread I apologize for being part of this trainwreck. To the rest of you .

 

As long as the primaries aren't overly huge and the total length of the header is kept long to increase overall torque, you will gain power both under the curve and peak power over exhaust manifolds. Obviously if you're running too big a primary and open headers or exhaust, your torque curves are going to change.

Mike

Mike