Beginner Performance Mods
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 62
From: Dallas, Tx
Re: Beginner Performance Mods
I am not an engine guru but i know suspension i have a credited hours at my local college.
your right...kinda......depends on the situation, suspension hp coming from the engine, transmission, and the entire drivetrain. Have you ever heard of axle flex, probably not. its similar to why you sure up the suspension. Flex your car, anywhere takes time away from a run, flex is not limited to the body of the car. In Hot Rods annual mag, "Engines", Bob Masinggale of the School of Automotive Machinest added a 12 bolt rear to his 9's second bolt-on camaro camaro and improved his time and hp at the wheel. maybe your geeting your facts from a different source but GM HIGH TECH AND HOT ROD SEEM to be pretty reliable and reputable on their fact, so if you feel like arguing go argue with them, like i said i can only relate the facts i don't make them up
your right...kinda......depends on the situation, suspension hp coming from the engine, transmission, and the entire drivetrain. Have you ever heard of axle flex, probably not. its similar to why you sure up the suspension. Flex your car, anywhere takes time away from a run, flex is not limited to the body of the car. In Hot Rods annual mag, "Engines", Bob Masinggale of the School of Automotive Machinest added a 12 bolt rear to his 9's second bolt-on camaro camaro and improved his time and hp at the wheel. maybe your geeting your facts from a different source but GM HIGH TECH AND HOT ROD SEEM to be pretty reliable and reputable on their fact, so if you feel like arguing go argue with them, like i said i can only relate the facts i don't make them up
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 265
From: New Orleans, LA
Re: Beginner Performance Mods
Originally Posted by Will_Die_Trying
Good chose,suspension kit from bmr is cheap and easy to install that will help you car from shaking a part when you actually start getting the higher power rages. You might think about a lower suspension, and not the g-ride lowered but a lower stance for the ride, this makes it look faster and add to the acceleration performance to the car. also consider the transmission and rear end. high performance rear ends have less hp loss. like i say, i am taking this info straight out of gm high tech performance and just letting you know what others did to get 12 second times. don't forget light weight seats, for around $200 you can get a light weight race seat for $400 you can get two. if you sure up you suspension, put the car on a diet and strengthen the drivetrain as in tranny and rear end, you should be in the 12's, then if you tear in to the engine you going to get more gains out of it per mod. But lids are cheap and and same with high flow maf.
Hope this is not to much info
Hope this is not to much info
Oh, so much misinformation, where to start? I know, I'll start with your misinformation about suspensions and rear ends!!!
Lowering your car will hurt your straight line performance. No matter how much it may "look faster". "high performance rear ends have less hp loss" That is categorically wrong. You are either misreading or misunderstanding the magazine articles you're quoting. Go call up Strange Engineering, Moser Engineering, or anyone else who knows what the hell they're talking about (so not you) and see what they say. A simple SEARCH!!! of this board will show you what I'm talking about. Try starting in the suspension and drivetrain forums.
On to the rest of your posts: weight reduction. Sure, spend $400 on a set of seats. If you like the way they look and would rather not spend that $400 on something that will actually make you go faster. As for getting into the 12's, all you have to do is buy some sticky tires, heat them up, and know how to launch. Gee, what's axle flex? No one but those with "a credited hours" at a local college must be privy to what that magical term is. Before you go and say that Teke doesn't know something, try reading his other posts/threads and maybe try quoting some real facts. Flex in your car is not going to take away from your times. If your suspension flexes so that the tires don't have to transfer weight, they can keep traction and you can go faster. So lowering your car tends to ruin your launch unless you also upgrade to some sticky tires. Man, it's gonna be a long night with this guy.
Abe
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 8,319
From: US 1 Mile Marker 52 in the Florida Keys
Re: Beginner Performance Mods
thanks abe
i guess according to this guys logic...if i took the rear end out of a dump truck i'd pick up hp...cause the rear end is stonger and allows less flex
:blah:
anyone who has worked on building cars...ie...shops...can tell you that a stronger...ie...BIGGER AND HEAVIER...rear end will sacrifice power at the wheels. just like going to a ligher flywheel or lighter driveshaft actually increase hp at the wheels. it's call "parasitic loss". the more mass you have to spin, the more power it takes, which means less transfered to the ground.
you say this guy improved his times with the 12 bolt...well yeah...he could run steeper gears, launch harder and run stickier tires. but i'd like to see the dyno graph, with nothing else changed, that showed an increase in rwhp.
i mean you have credited hours....didn't you take notes? or don't you have a handout? how bout a scan from a book or mag?
and truthfully...i have never found much rock solid truth in Hot Rod mag, GM high tech is a little better. but just like alot of car shows on TV...they are at the mercy of thier sponsors. i mean "hot rod TV" did an LS1 rebuild with a cam and heads, and tuned it with a hypertech handheld unit!!! i mean come on....tuning a stock car with that is almost pointless...let alone a H/C setup.
i guess according to this guys logic...if i took the rear end out of a dump truck i'd pick up hp...cause the rear end is stonger and allows less flex
:blah:
anyone who has worked on building cars...ie...shops...can tell you that a stronger...ie...BIGGER AND HEAVIER...rear end will sacrifice power at the wheels. just like going to a ligher flywheel or lighter driveshaft actually increase hp at the wheels. it's call "parasitic loss". the more mass you have to spin, the more power it takes, which means less transfered to the ground.
you say this guy improved his times with the 12 bolt...well yeah...he could run steeper gears, launch harder and run stickier tires. but i'd like to see the dyno graph, with nothing else changed, that showed an increase in rwhp.
i mean you have credited hours....didn't you take notes? or don't you have a handout? how bout a scan from a book or mag?
and truthfully...i have never found much rock solid truth in Hot Rod mag, GM high tech is a little better. but just like alot of car shows on TV...they are at the mercy of thier sponsors. i mean "hot rod TV" did an LS1 rebuild with a cam and heads, and tuned it with a hypertech handheld unit!!! i mean come on....tuning a stock car with that is almost pointless...let alone a H/C setup.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 775
From: Alexandria, VA
Re: Beginner Performance Mods
I'm not going to bother going into how wrong Will Die Trying is, instead I'll actually help out the original poster.
Those who've said that the first thing you need to do is suspension are right. Start out with subframe connectors (should always be the first mod for fbodys) After SFC's get some tubular lower control arms. They'll help keep the rear under you when you launch, not to mention they're stronger and will give you an all-around better feel.
Along with those two suspension mods, you definitely need to have some good rubber too. No point having a strong suspension if the wheels are sticking to the road.
Ok, after those three, it's time for go-fast mods. Start out with the most basic, and get a lid, cutout, and do the free mods. The cutout is debatable with some, but it's easy and cheap power. You can run around with it uncapped all the time and still only be as loud as those with LT's and free-flowing catbacks.
The next thing to do will depend on in you get an auto or not. If you do, a stall is VERY necessary. It will change the all-around feel of the car. As for those that say it hurts your gas mileage, it's not as bad as they make it seem. I only lost 1-2 mpg all around, and I think it was actually do to needing a tune after headers. But yeah, get AT LEAST a 3500 stall, and that's for a daily driver or not. If you were going "mostly strip" I'd say go for a 4400. With stalls, you'll get what you pay for.
After the stall, you should look into longtubes. Again, you get what you pay for. You can go cheap with Pacesetters and have them rust after a year (yes, the coated ones will rust) Or you can get Kooks or QTPs and have great quality stainless steel that will never rust (they'll just cost you close to a grand with a y-pipe)
After all these mods you'll have a GREAT start. You can continue with mods like gears (3.73s are PERFECT for an auto with a stall), ported throttle body, underdrive pulley, LS6 intake (or a used LSX if you can find one cheap).
Hope you take this to heart, because it's been a proven formula. There's been alot of guys that did things ***-backwards and wondered why they weren't as fast as guys with half the mods. Good luck!
Those who've said that the first thing you need to do is suspension are right. Start out with subframe connectors (should always be the first mod for fbodys) After SFC's get some tubular lower control arms. They'll help keep the rear under you when you launch, not to mention they're stronger and will give you an all-around better feel.
Along with those two suspension mods, you definitely need to have some good rubber too. No point having a strong suspension if the wheels are sticking to the road.
Ok, after those three, it's time for go-fast mods. Start out with the most basic, and get a lid, cutout, and do the free mods. The cutout is debatable with some, but it's easy and cheap power. You can run around with it uncapped all the time and still only be as loud as those with LT's and free-flowing catbacks.
The next thing to do will depend on in you get an auto or not. If you do, a stall is VERY necessary. It will change the all-around feel of the car. As for those that say it hurts your gas mileage, it's not as bad as they make it seem. I only lost 1-2 mpg all around, and I think it was actually do to needing a tune after headers. But yeah, get AT LEAST a 3500 stall, and that's for a daily driver or not. If you were going "mostly strip" I'd say go for a 4400. With stalls, you'll get what you pay for.
After the stall, you should look into longtubes. Again, you get what you pay for. You can go cheap with Pacesetters and have them rust after a year (yes, the coated ones will rust) Or you can get Kooks or QTPs and have great quality stainless steel that will never rust (they'll just cost you close to a grand with a y-pipe)
After all these mods you'll have a GREAT start. You can continue with mods like gears (3.73s are PERFECT for an auto with a stall), ported throttle body, underdrive pulley, LS6 intake (or a used LSX if you can find one cheap).
Hope you take this to heart, because it's been a proven formula. There's been alot of guys that did things ***-backwards and wondered why they weren't as fast as guys with half the mods. Good luck!
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