Many of you may know me from the "Future Vehicle" fourm.

My car is a Polar White, 2002 B4C Camaro I purchased from the California Highway Patrol when it was just over 2 years old and just about 90,000 miles. Prior to my buying the car, the CHP replaced the transmission, the rear end, the brake rotors, the bushings, power window motors, and a few pieces of interior trim (Camaros don't really hold up well in hard police use).

The only real maintence issue I've had was that I had to replace the power window motors twice (don't let me bump into the guy who approved these things in a dark alley). The engine has never needed work, the transmission (though you notice it's not 100% anymore) is still good. The body is still solid.

When it was time to replace the brake pads, I went with ceramic pads all around. When I replaced the air filter the 2nd time, I went with K&N. When I replaced the spark plugs, I went with Boush Platinium +4 (4 electrodes instead of the single stock). The last set of tires I put on was over a year and a half ago: a set of 275 Nitto NT05s mounted on 5 spoke silver Corvette rims.

For those of you not familiar with B4Cs, they are essentially base level Z28s without the "Z28" badging, but they have 1LE rear suspension parts, something called "computer aided gear selection" (basically the computer preventing one from saccidently slamming the automatic gear lever into too low a gear), the trunk release switch moved out of the glove compartment and to the driver's reach, and a higher capacity alternator with upgraded electrical systems and battery.

My engine is as it was installed in the car, never out & never apart. It's been using oil since I bought the thing (a typical LS1 issue). There has never been any coolant issues, and no overheating issues. I change the oil roughly every 4,000 to 5,000 miles (although some reccomend 3,000 miles, todays oil...in normal everyday use, with no coolant leakage... is good for at least twice that.... it's one of those industry secrets ).

Here's the deal:

I have just turned over 215,000 miles. Just when I'm at a point where I'm ready to get something different, someone stops me and asks about my car and if I'd be willing to sell it (California B4Cs are easily identifiable because they have 2 additional "mini grilles" drilled into each side of the bumper... the unknowledgable think they are cooling for superchargers or some other mythical uniquely "cop-car" item.... truth is the only thing mounted behind them were the police loudspeakers).

If I keep the thing (I've had it for just over 6 years so far), I know I'm going to need to keep a budget set aside for things that go wrong. What have you guys noticed tends to most frequently "need attention" as these cars age?

What tends to go wrong most often?

 

I wish people would quit saying this. Saying that its ''typical'' makes most people think that all LS1s use oil. They don't, period. I have 3 cars with them, my buddy has a turbocharged one that's using it's second motor (built low compression motor and the stock one is still good), and I had a truck with a Gen III. Out of the 6 motors none of them use any oil. If it was as you say ''typical'' then at least one should use oil.

 

Some LS1's did use oil, possibly due to porosity in the casting of the block or heads- GM cheaped out on customer complaints, and told owners that using a quart of oil per 1000 miles was considered normal- Mine doesn't use oil, either.

Normal wear items- these cars had pretty bullet-proof drivetrains. Wheels bearings, figure on a transmission rebuilt at some point- the B4C was a pretty durable car, built to be run hard every day. Do your fluid changes on the 'severe service' schedule.

 

I was under the impression that the oil cconsumption was due to the pcv system in the pre ls6 cars. With the ls6 valley cover and moving the pcv, the oil consumption almost stops.

 

I had my LS1 for 10+ yrs. 115K mi. & I never had to top off the oil.

 

Quit saying it? Why? It's true!!! GM knew this years ago, and offered several different TSBs in an attempt to downplay the issue, until they finally updated the piston rings and PCV system, which helped, but did not completely resolve the issue. It is a known problem by both the LS1 crowd, AND GM. I've never replaced a window motor on either my 200K+ mile Z28, or my now 10 year old TA. Does that mean they aren't a problem area?

Looks like the CHP addressed the most common problems. Belt driven accessories are common repairs (like many vehicles). PCV tubing tends to rot away at higher miles.

 

Sorry Al, but it IS true.... and if enough people have said it to make you exasperated when you hear it, then it's very common.

I myself have come across a large number of people over the years who have had the exact same 2 issues with the LS1 as I have:

*Excessive oil usage
*Excessive clanging noise till the engine warms up

GM itself has acknowledged those issues with some LS1s, going as far as to say that they cause no durability issues.

Sure, 100% of LS1s don't use oil. And maybe, just maybe 50% of them don't. However, there is enough of these engines that do which not only has plenty of owners saying they do (telling a group of people that something they are experiencing isn't happening is a bit insulting BTW), but also enough owners (including myself) have complained to GM that they had essentially a public statement on the matter.

As far as your experience:

1. The "Gen III" engine in the trucks are not LS1s. Please look up the differences.

2. You yourself say that your friend's turbo is "built" therefore not stock

3. Regarding this turbocharged motor, I doubt I'd be assuming that he did nothing to the inside. If he has a turbocharger (instead of a one of the bolt on, low compression supercharger kits) I'd bet heavily he's spend additional money on internals (again, making the engine non-stock). Otherwise, he would have blown that 10.25 to one compression ratio, hypereutectic powder metal piston LS1 engine to kingdom come by now if not by his 1st race.

4. A stock motor sitting around that's "good" doesn't mean it doesn't use oil, the chat rooms are full of people running F-bodies with "good" LS1 motors (like myself) that use oil.

5. If you have 3 LS1 F-bodies sitting around your house that you drive and don't use any oil whatsoever, consider yourself extraordinarily lucky.


Please folks... I'm looking for subjective experiences and common issues with LS1s not defensive and somewhat inaccurate posts telling me to ignore actual issues with these engines or cars.

 

I can't quote everyone else's experience. However, my 2002 LS1 Z28 and 2004 LS1 GTO didn't use one drop of oil between oil changes. The Camaro had a LS1 block and the GTO had an LS6 block. Not sure if that matters. Anyway, just saying I went two for two on mine.

 

1999 SS. 78,000 miles

- One passenger window motor
- One dead 10-bolt crush sleeve and ensuing overhaul (after having a cam install)
- 1 toasted clutch - starting having problems before the cam.
- Shocks, springs, bearings have all been good.
- AC compressor giving me issues (may have been messed with too much during engine work)
- Will not hold a full resevoir of power steering fluid. it will leak down to about 2/3 full and stop
- Never used a ton of oil, even as a daily driver.

Overall it has been a good car, but not nearly the miles you have. On a side note, how do you like the NT-05's? I am thinking about going to a aggressive street tire, and my top choices are Ecsta XS, Proxes R1R, and NT-05.

 

Typical infers that more do than don't. And that's not true.
Many do, maybe even a lot do, but that still doesn't make it typical.

1. You look up the difference. I know what it is and the design is exactly the same.

2. It's still an LS1 so if as you say LS1s typically use oil then it should too.

3. 40,000 miles on a totally stock, yes totally stock LS1 motor with an Incon twin turbo kit pushing over 500hp to the wheels and it didn't use oil when we pulled it to replace it with the low comp engine so that he could up the boost and power.

4. Of course I was talking about before it was pulled. See number 3.

5. Call me lucky then if that's what you believe.

Nothing inacurate about my post.

 

I don't claim that some LS1s don't use oil. My only complaint is the use of the word typical. And I defifitely don't condone GM not taking care of customers that have problems. Been on the other end of that one (different problem different vehicle) and it sucks.

 

Well, it was common enough for GM to address the issue with TSBs, several different piston ring revisions, a new cylinder head bolt design (to help eliminate bore distortion), along with an updated PCV design. It almost looks like GM was just throwing stuff at the problem to help mask an inherent design flaw

Finally, I will offer up that my original shortblock did use quite a bit of oil. I purchased an engine from a 60K mile 01 Camaro and even with the more aggressive setup, it doesn't use a drop.

 

For #2.

Im the owner of the turbo car. The kit was installed at 6,000 miles the 1st year I owned the car. I bought it new. Its a 2000 Formula.

For the first 45K miles that the kit was on (before going forged); the motor was essentially stock. I did replace valvesprings, pushrods, clutch, and fuel pump when the kit was installed. raced it quite often, and drove it hard on the street as much as needed. lol. It was at just under 500rwhp and 8psi boost at this time. ran as much as 127+ traps in the 1/4 at 3900#'s.

Later on, it got an ls6 intake (no ls6 valley pan or pcv system, however), and a retune close to 550rwhp at 8.5-9psi boost. I ran as much as 132 at the same weight, in cold air.

Then it got new lifters, and truck heads trying to figure out a tick, 4-5 years ago.

It was only after we pulled the motor this year, that the cam lobe failure was found. The edge was wiped due to porosity in the metal. (defect).

NEVER used any oil, except when the scavenge pump went bad and it was being dumped out the exhaust in a big cloud. Think spy getaway type smoke, lol.

For #3

It is a twin turbo kit from Incon, and again; was put on the stock motor (see above). not some "low compression supercharger kit". Nor sure what that means? boost pressure at the intake is boost. the pistons dont care what type of compressor is providing it.

as for blowing up a powdered metal hyperpathetic piston 10.25:1 stock motor by the 1st race. LS1's aren't anywhere near as weak as you think, and they are 10.1:1. Not that it makes much difference. Maybe you're thinking lt1?

tune and fueling is key. <11.5:1 a/f ratio, 16* of timing at peak tq; and a fuel pressure regulator that raises fuel pressure with boost makes em quite safe. 5-600 rwhp through a manual trans is pretty easy, and some guys have made close to 700. Obviously thats pushing it, but they dont just grenade as soon as they see boost.

I know most of this is off topic, but I agree with Al. While it may be that some ls1's use oil; certainly not all of em do. and by the number of people I know whith these cars, I'd say its not the majority. Certainly not enough to say its common. I had a 98 z28 before this car, and it never used oil either.

The only thing I can guess, is that "maybe" as they get higher miles on them, they use oil? It doesn't seem to be from cylinder wear, so that leaves rings, pcv, and valve seals to the cause; I guess? I could see rings making it happen, but wouldn't more of them smoke, especially at cold startup?

If any of you out there that do have oil consumption, can you chime in and say whether you replaced the pcv? and did it help? I would consider this a maintenance item, but maybe they need them replaced more often than people do.

Another thought is that maybe in certain parts of the country where its colder or hotter for extended periods of time makes a difference? I sort of doubt that too, since in MI we get all types of weather. -10 to 105.

I haven't read the TSB's about oil consumption in a while, were they just the ones that said oil useage in 1000 miles is OK? GM isn't the only ones to say that I think, and it wasn't just for Lsx motors was it? Im thinking it was kind of a guideline the industry came up with just to "fix" a problem. (thinking out loud).

BACK ON TOPIC.

 

As for your main post, guionM....

I would say that if the rear and trans were already replaced, with 215k miles on it; I would think about having a short block ready. I doubt there are too many people that have a ton more miles on an f-body ls1 than you do. And since it was a cop car, probably not a lot have had a harder life. If there was a weak link, it might have popped up by now. All thats left is the motor. Well, maybe ac compressor; water pump, oil pump, alternator. etc. certainly not much else is left. Fuel pump?

If its going to be kept, have a budget for a motor. all else is relatively cheap if you get take out parts form us guys that have removed stuff. AC etc.

 

That's pretty much it. But GM redesigned the PCV valve to a fixed orifice to combat oil consumption. They even redesigned the entire PCV system on the LS6s, again, for oil consumption. Later, they redesigned the pistons rings for... you guessed it... oil consumption. Finally, they redesigned the blocks to use the shorter head bolts to help reduce bore distortion. I'll give you one guess why they did that. Seems like a LOT of work for something that according to a few, isn't much of a problem.