I started this to list differences between LS1 cars and to help answer the constant question "Why did "X" LS1 car beat "X" LS1 car?

Most of my knowledge is tailored more towards Camaros but most of it applies to the LS1 Firebird/Trans Ams too.

I spaced each statement out to make it easier on the eyes
And I also asked for verification/elaboration here and there where I'm not 100% sure. Plus the info is kindof scattered. Im too tired to move it around right now.(6:30 AM + few hours at computer + busy all day = bedtime after my Marlboro Light) I'll fix it later.

I will update/correct the info as needed, so if you see a mistake, PM me!
Know an interesting factoid that applies here? Post it or PM me!

There are so many variables its mind-boggling....

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No. 1 on my list is weight....plays a big role. The lighter a car is, the faster it will be.

Hardtops are slightly lighter than TTops so that matters(Not to say a TTop cant be a lightweight from the factory...)(Convertible also adds weight)

Fully loaded cars are heavier than low optioned cars.

For those that dont know...six speeds usually are faster than the autos. Autos are more consistent when you start modding but a well prepped six speed with a good driver should run faster if all the variables are the same. Unless your talking running 10s and lower, then the autos become faster in most cases.

Gear ratios make a huge difference(A4s = 2.73s or 3.23s & only 3.42s on M6s)

Im not sure but maybe the 01-02 Z28 rims could weigh different than the SS rims...same goes for Firebird/Trans Am.(Anyone know?? Im going to weigh my stock rims & my SS rims when they go on with & without tires to have a comparison)

Equipped tires could be different in weight/traction/size(Makes a big difference sometimes)

Califonia cars may have more emissions equipment so that could add weight(I dont know, I have never lived there....can anyone verify this?)

of course, there is the fact that some 01-02s got the LS6 block...could make some difference...(anyone?)

The 01-02s got the LS6 style intake...

Some cars got the Hurst shifter....could be easier for some to shift with...(driver skill thing really but it helps)

00-02s got better exhaust manifolds(log-style for 98-99 then semi-tubular style for 00-02s)

Some had better exhaust systems as well...see post #2, ShaneS explains it well.

98-99 or 98-2000s got a slightly better cam than 01-02s - not much difference, but they are different.(Is it 98-99 or 98-00?)

There were differences in injectors also. See post #8.

Some run rich with the stock tune some dont(Do some run lean?) Which could cause differences in performance/HP when modded.(Also depends on location/weather I assume.....The same exact car may run rich in Houston but perfect in Chicago...Am I right?)

I believe SS/WS6 cars either had standard or optional shocks(Bilstein?) They could have weight differences and react differently in a drag race.

I think SS/WS6 cars may have gotten bigger sway bars for better cornering(More weight though) but Im only 10% sure on that.(I think I read that somewhere...could be a rumor(Anyone??)

The SS/WS6 Ram Air hood could weigh more or less I dont know(Anyone??)

The SS/Trans Am WS6 spoiler could weigh more or less I dont know(Anyone??)

Some cars had the optional appearance package(Ground effects, body kit, whatever you want to call it) which again adds weight but could reduce aerodynamic drag for better top end.(Does it?)

SS/Trans Am WS6 cars had Ram Air which adds more power, especially at high speeds.

SS/WS6 cars had an optional(?) Torsen differential(What difference does this make?)

Some cars had the Monsoon stereo system with more speakers and an amplifier(Adds weight)

Leather, power seats, etc adds weight.

Depending on the type of tires the car was equipped with the speed limiter varies from 110(?) to 162(?)(Specifics anyone?) Which could explain why some people think they blew someone away on the freeway(Which could lead them to believe their car would perform the same from a stop. some people have Im sure...)

Mileage & Mantainance: A brand new car needs to be broken in before it will produce optimal results(most of the time..) and how often a car is mantained does as well. Different types(Brand, type, & weight) of fluids can also produce different results.(transmission fluid, oil, coolant, rear end fluid, etc)

Also, when comparing cars raced on different dates/times/locations the weather and elevation play a huge role. More than some realize. Also, when comparing track times, track preparation is also another huge factor. Some have really good track prep some have almost none. Weather can also effect dyno runs, and dynos vary so you may get different results from dyno to dyno(Not just brand but the same brands may show ddifferent results)

Dont forget driver skill.....which can ruin a cars performance lol.....but to me anything goes because if you cant drive then I beat you fair and square
But dont assume just because you won against "X" car you will always repeat that against the same car. Know your opponent.(This means A. different drivers will have different result with the same car, and B. All LS1 cars are different, and are optioned different, so the same driver could have different results with the same model if it isnt optioned EXACTLY the same & is the same year.

Last, some people are not honest and hide things which can give them an advantage. There are so many things under this catagory I wont even go there...(Not just mods like nitrous, but they could for instance have weight reduction or something and make sure it is undetectable(gutting rear seats, removing sound deadening material, etc) they could know that a certain spot gives them an advantage)

Thats not to say it is unfair to do those mods or have an advantage, not at all....its all fair game....its just unfair to "forget" to mention it or claim not to have these modifications. These things must be predisclosed unless your racing "Run whatcha brung" style where there are no rules or excuses.

Street racing(or at the strip, for that matter) another car that you know nothing about throws all this out the window except for what you can percieve with your own eyes or hear from a dependable source...

Hope that helps some of the new people who dont want to ask or hopefully you veterans learned something new. Lol hope you dont need glasses after reading that

Dont forget to notify me of errors & new info! Dont wanna spread the wrong info! Some of the missing/dubious stuff is here on the board, I'll search for it later.

-Chris

 

The LS1 SS Camaros were done by SLP, and had a few different 'stock' options available to them - shocks, exhaust, airbox lid, differential. The Trans Ams did not have these options available. The WS6 Trans Am/Formula did get an upgrade to the shocks & exhaust, but not with multiple options like the SS.
[edit]: SLP did do the Firehawk - which did have similar options to the SS. You don't see many of these cars around though...
[\edit]
Also, almost any place above where you say "Trans Am", I think you mean "WS6".

The Trans Am standard options & body kit added a lot of weight over an LS1 Formula.

Don't forget the semi-rare hardtop Formula WS6...lightweight + WS6 package... :yup:

I believe the 98's had a bigger cam & bigger injectors than the later years - though the 01+ cars come close.

The SS/WS6 cars don't get much performance gain from the "Ram Air" hoods. Most of their performance gain is from the upgraded exhaust. *Some* gain could also be seen because of the cooler air coming in through the hood - but it isn't ram air.

Also, don't forget the plain old "production tolerances" part - these cars seem to have a wide variance in rwhp from the factory - even on the same dyno, same day. You could see a 20rwhp difference on the dyno in "identical" drivetrain cars.

That's all I can think of until I get my coffee...

 

The ttop and harddtop cars are the same except for the metal skin over the ttop holes on the hardtop. They are no stiffer or lighter really.

 

I didnt know that.
I thought there was a brace thats shaped like a "Z" down the center of the top of the car under that metal skin?
I figured a hardtop would be more desirable for drag racing 10s or better....less body flex I thought? I've seen TTop cars with the body flexed so much the doors wouldnt close right...

So mine being a hardtop will do it too....thats a bummer.

thanks...its fixed

EDIT: BTW Its got to be lighter...those TTops arent lightweight compared to a sheet of metal & a small brace...

 

98-99- tubular exhaust that actually flowed worse than the 2000+
98-2000- slightly larger cam that was offset by the lack of a LS6 intake
2001-02- some were equipped with LS6 block. Better crankcase ventilation, but not more HP
Stripper Z28s and Formulas can weigh up to 80ish lbs less than a fully-optioned car
The Hurst shifters are junk...biggest waste of $300 I've ever spent
98 and some 99s got the Borg-Warner T56, the later years are Tremec
98s and 2001-02s got 28ish pound injectors while 99-2000 were 26ish.
1998s had a metal gas tank as opposed to plastic in the other years

I'll think of more...

 

Fixed

Yeah I think those would be the fastest of all LS1s.

thanks

 

Good info! Especially the gask tank info...

I've never had the Hurst myself but I've tried it and it seemed better than stock but nowhere near like a B & M.

And I didnt know some 99s got the Borg-Warner.... cool.

 

These aren't necessarily speed/HP differences, but...
98s had functional temp gauge and different valve covers
99+ got a better power trunk mechanism
Hardtops are not much lighter, nor more sound structurally than T-tops
I'll think of more...

 

From what I have read and researched the 01-02 Z28 wheels are the lightest ones ever offered from the factory for any Fbody. (I think it was 16-17lbs per)
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I feel that better bay to bay breathing does help considering its making WORK easier which directly translates to more HP remaining available not getting lost..
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BETTER is a term I would use loosely.. Why? Because BIGGER does not mean better.. Better to me is my stock cam that is very well balanced. The #1 complaint I read about and hear from people was that their 98-2000 car was sluggish off the line. My 2002 exhibited none of that. It pulls hard off the line, through the mid range and on to 140+.. I love this "inferior" cam..
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THe 98's got the larger injectors.. for 99-2000 they were reduced in flow.. then for 01-02 the larger injectors were back. (I think.. 28lbs for the larger 26 for the smaller?)
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This was standard factory on all Z28 in the 2002 year. Not sure about others.
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For a thread that's supposed to be ANSWERS to the QUESTION "WHY", there are still a lot of "speculative" answers.

IMO, there are 3 variables that will determine how 2 cars run against each other, and that can be "credited" or "blamed" for a win/loss (based on equally modded, or "equally stock" cars) :

• 1st) Conditions: temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, elevation. They WILL have an effect on how a car runs (elevation you can't change, so a car in Florida and one in Colorado will probably always perform differently). Even on the same day, as the temperature changes, so will the way the car runs. Unless 2 cars are run together at the same time, then any comparisons are not 100% accurate, because it's unlikely that the conditions were IDENTICAL. Also, if a car was dyno tuned on a cold day, vs. on a hot day, then that could affect how they work on a different day.
  
• 2nd) Traction: maybe I should title this as Tires?? If you're running street tires, you'll never (or rarely) get consistant traction. Unless you can consistantly "spin" the same amount, and always get the same 60' times, then traction will play one of the biggest roles in 2 identical cars performing differently. Especially on the street where the roadways aren't going to be cleaned and "prepped", then "lane choice" could make a night and day difference. A 12-second car probably won't hook on the streets the same as at the track, and would likely run a ~14.xxx on the streets.
  
• 3rd (and most important) DRIVER: can you drive? I mean, do you know how to really drive your car to its fullest potential?? I'd be willing to bet that the majority of us can't drive as consitantly, or to the fullest potential as the pros do. I mean, I *think* I can drive pretty good. I ran my Dad's '73 into the 12's the same day he only cut a 13.2 with it. BUT, I was in my friend's '97 Z28, and he shifted that damn 6-speed faster than my auto.....swear to god, I've never seen a standard shifted so friggin' fast!? SO, if he was driving our '73, I wonder what it could do?? The DRIVER can make or break a car.

In a nut-shell, while we don't have much control over conditions, we can invest in TIRES to fix traction problems, and we CAN learn to drive better. With at least those 2 things being equal, and as long as you run together on the same day (eliminating condition differences) then all those other differences you mentioned will come into play. Until then, these are the keys to work on.

 

so which year would be the best for a turboing?

 

lol all of them.....

And I totally agree about the driver, traction & conditions being the #1 most important things.....

Those + everything mentioned above comes into play when talking about stock LS1 FBodies.....but I would say yes, the driver is the most important thing. A good driver can whoop up on a stripper Z28 with a loaded 'Vert if the other guy isnt ready for him...

Practice makes perfect....so do it!

 

Very well put Cap'n!

 

None of this matters.

When you're (trying to) build an identical car 200,000 times, there will always be variables. Some cars come out freaks (a little extra head port? a little extra lift? who knows) and some come out sluggish compared to others (odd PCM tune, cramped exhaust, whatever).

Fbodies are in such a great number that they can only be described as a standard bell curve. with 50% performing right on par, and 25% performing anywhere from slightly less than average all the way to far below average, and of course 25% performing better than average all the way up to much better than average. you've got your 280rwhp stockers and you've got your 320rwhp stockers, then you've got the majority being around ~300rwhp.

Drivers I'd say are also a major contributing factor. Any decent stick driver should be able to outshift an auto, afterall, we're not driving $70,000 mercedes with cutting edge automatic trannies here. But, then some people still aren't so savvy with the 6 speed. There are stuck clutches, missed shifts, slipping clutches, powershifting (or not), shifting at or not shifting at the right RPM, etc. So many more variables to concentrate on with a manual.

 

Here's another variable to think about:

I've heard that the car's computer adjusts its performance to the person's driving habits. Meaning if your car sees 10 WOT runs per day then it may be faster at the track then someone who drives the speed limit all the time and hardly punches it.