CAM Dyno Tuning Results
03-22-2005, 01:35 PM
#1
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CAM Dyno Tuning Results
I posted this here due to the general interest nature of the topic.
We held our tuning day last Friday, Saturday and Sunday at Tuning Technologies in Colton, CA with Jeff Creech of Carolina Auto Masters (CAM). Despite blower issues on a heavily built Camaro, a worthlessly encrypted PCM (by a ****-poor tuner) in a Z06 T1 competition car, and a hurt high mileage stock LT1 with a big blower in a Trans Am, the turnout was great, the weather cooperated for some of us, and everyone gained – whether it was drivability, peak numbers or only diagnostics.
Below is a listing by car only of the before and after tuning numbers, along with notations as applicable. Keep in mind that a few of these cars had a mail order tune in them already, which really demonstrates that the benefits of a dyno tune are undisputable.
2000 Trans Am, 346 LS1 M6, Procharger, from 499rwhp/459rwtq to 516rwhp/461rwtq, original tune had the KS turned off (scary).
1999 C5, 346 LS1 A4, stock heads, big cam, from 344rwhp/301rwtq to 405rwhp/363rwtq, car had nitrous, but the fuel supply line size was inadequate.
2004 C5, 346 LS1 A4, heads & mild cam, 416rwhp/400rwtq, no baseline run due to injector swap – injector change in PCM had tuning written with it.
1998 Camaro SS, 388 LS1 M6, H/C, from 495rwhp/457rwtq to 502rwhp/459rwtq, graph is smoother, picked up power from the previous tune under the curve from 2500 to 6400 and can be driven in rush-hour traffic with zero cam surge.
2004 C5 Z06, 346 LS1 M6, H/C, from 410rwhp/386rwtq to 423rwhp/395rwtq. Many tunes, many theories, many $$ spent – lessons learned.
1994 Camaro Z28, 355 LT1 M6, H/C, from 290rwhp/331rwtq to 397rwhp/389rwtq. Cut-outs off the header collectors proved that the exhaust on this car basically sucked – it picked up 30rwhp from the cut-out alone.
1995 Camaro Z28, 350 LT1 M6, bolt-on modifications only, from 285rwhp/319rwtq to 302rwhp/336rwtq. Smart mods to an otherwise strong-running and well maintained LT1.
2001 Camaro Z28 SS, 346 LS1 M6, cam, bolt-on modifications, from 347rwhp/344rwtq to 358rwhp/355rwtq. Part throttle, SES codes and drivability issues plagued this car, but were all solved.
1999 C5, 346 LS1 M6, exhaust and filter, from 320rwhp/330rwtq to 323rwhp/333rwtq. Here’s proof that the stock tune in a M6 C5 is actually not too bad -the gains under the curve make the car way more responsive and fun to drive.
2002 Pontiac Firehawk, 346 LS1 M6, H/C, from 387rwhp/358rwtq to 399rwhp/374rwtq. This car didn’t idle when it arrived. His wife could drive it now, assuming he’d let her.
2001 Camaro SS, 346 LS1 M6, Cam and bolt on modifications, from 370rwhp/358rwtq to 399rwhp/377rwtq. This car is amazingly docile and amazingly brutal – this car is legit.
1997 Pontiac WS.6, 350 LT1 A4, Cam and bolt-on modifications, from 300rwhp/317rwtq to 309rwhp/329rwtq. This car had a mystery power drop that was cured with a tune in an OBDI PCM.
2002 Camaro Z28, 346 LS1 A4, Cam and bolt-on modifications, from 342rwhp/315rwtq to 353rwhp/333rwtq. Part throttle, SES codes and drivability issues plagued this car, but again were all solved.
2004 C5, 346 LS1 A4, exhaust only, from 290rwhp/305rwtq to 298rwhp/321rwtq.
1995 Camaro Z28, 383 LT1 A4, H/C/Nitrous/SC, DNF – faulty blower would not boost beyond 3# and tuning was aborted. Too bad – this car will be a monster with a functioning 10# blower.
1996 Pontiac WS.6, 350 LT1 M6, Procharger, headers, DNF – This was the high mileage LT1 that did not want to see any boost, much less the 8# it was being force-fed. Jeff got the tune to a safe level for the application, but no more big pulls are in this car’s future as it sits.
2002 C5 Z06, 383 LS6 M6, basically a stock Z06, DNF – Thanks to a encrypted PCM, we were unable to continue, which is too bad because the tune wasn’t worth protecting.
The next California CAM tuning trip will occur in either June or July this year. We’ve already got interest from a few H/C LT1’s, C5’s and GTO’s, so the event will be happening.
We held our tuning day last Friday, Saturday and Sunday at Tuning Technologies in Colton, CA with Jeff Creech of Carolina Auto Masters (CAM). Despite blower issues on a heavily built Camaro, a worthlessly encrypted PCM (by a ****-poor tuner) in a Z06 T1 competition car, and a hurt high mileage stock LT1 with a big blower in a Trans Am, the turnout was great, the weather cooperated for some of us, and everyone gained – whether it was drivability, peak numbers or only diagnostics.
Below is a listing by car only of the before and after tuning numbers, along with notations as applicable. Keep in mind that a few of these cars had a mail order tune in them already, which really demonstrates that the benefits of a dyno tune are undisputable.
2000 Trans Am, 346 LS1 M6, Procharger, from 499rwhp/459rwtq to 516rwhp/461rwtq, original tune had the KS turned off (scary).
1999 C5, 346 LS1 A4, stock heads, big cam, from 344rwhp/301rwtq to 405rwhp/363rwtq, car had nitrous, but the fuel supply line size was inadequate.
2004 C5, 346 LS1 A4, heads & mild cam, 416rwhp/400rwtq, no baseline run due to injector swap – injector change in PCM had tuning written with it.
1998 Camaro SS, 388 LS1 M6, H/C, from 495rwhp/457rwtq to 502rwhp/459rwtq, graph is smoother, picked up power from the previous tune under the curve from 2500 to 6400 and can be driven in rush-hour traffic with zero cam surge.
2004 C5 Z06, 346 LS1 M6, H/C, from 410rwhp/386rwtq to 423rwhp/395rwtq. Many tunes, many theories, many $$ spent – lessons learned.
1994 Camaro Z28, 355 LT1 M6, H/C, from 290rwhp/331rwtq to 397rwhp/389rwtq. Cut-outs off the header collectors proved that the exhaust on this car basically sucked – it picked up 30rwhp from the cut-out alone.
1995 Camaro Z28, 350 LT1 M6, bolt-on modifications only, from 285rwhp/319rwtq to 302rwhp/336rwtq. Smart mods to an otherwise strong-running and well maintained LT1.
2001 Camaro Z28 SS, 346 LS1 M6, cam, bolt-on modifications, from 347rwhp/344rwtq to 358rwhp/355rwtq. Part throttle, SES codes and drivability issues plagued this car, but were all solved.
1999 C5, 346 LS1 M6, exhaust and filter, from 320rwhp/330rwtq to 323rwhp/333rwtq. Here’s proof that the stock tune in a M6 C5 is actually not too bad -the gains under the curve make the car way more responsive and fun to drive.
2002 Pontiac Firehawk, 346 LS1 M6, H/C, from 387rwhp/358rwtq to 399rwhp/374rwtq. This car didn’t idle when it arrived. His wife could drive it now, assuming he’d let her.
2001 Camaro SS, 346 LS1 M6, Cam and bolt on modifications, from 370rwhp/358rwtq to 399rwhp/377rwtq. This car is amazingly docile and amazingly brutal – this car is legit.
1997 Pontiac WS.6, 350 LT1 A4, Cam and bolt-on modifications, from 300rwhp/317rwtq to 309rwhp/329rwtq. This car had a mystery power drop that was cured with a tune in an OBDI PCM.
2002 Camaro Z28, 346 LS1 A4, Cam and bolt-on modifications, from 342rwhp/315rwtq to 353rwhp/333rwtq. Part throttle, SES codes and drivability issues plagued this car, but again were all solved.
2004 C5, 346 LS1 A4, exhaust only, from 290rwhp/305rwtq to 298rwhp/321rwtq.
1995 Camaro Z28, 383 LT1 A4, H/C/Nitrous/SC, DNF – faulty blower would not boost beyond 3# and tuning was aborted. Too bad – this car will be a monster with a functioning 10# blower.
1996 Pontiac WS.6, 350 LT1 M6, Procharger, headers, DNF – This was the high mileage LT1 that did not want to see any boost, much less the 8# it was being force-fed. Jeff got the tune to a safe level for the application, but no more big pulls are in this car’s future as it sits.
2002 C5 Z06, 383 LS6 M6, basically a stock Z06, DNF – Thanks to a encrypted PCM, we were unable to continue, which is too bad because the tune wasn’t worth protecting.
The next California CAM tuning trip will occur in either June or July this year. We’ve already got interest from a few H/C LT1’s, C5’s and GTO’s, so the event will be happening.
03-22-2005, 03:22 PM
#2
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Originally Posted by SS MPSTR
1994 Camaro Z28, 355 LT1 M6, H/C, from 290rwhp/331rwtq to 397rwhp/389rwtq. Cut-outs off the header collectors proved that the exhaust on this car basically sucked – it picked up 30rwhp from the cut-out alone.
nice info,thanks for the cool post.
03-22-2005, 03:42 PM
#3
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Originally Posted by Rice Killer87
damn,what kinda exhaust was on that thing,stock or Flowmaster? thats alot of HP blocked up in that exhaust setup.
03-22-2005, 11:11 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
I guess since it is posted:
That 355 LT1 was me. Pretty crazy what a bad exhaust can do to performance.
I am happy with the initial numbers, but we found a few problems on the dyno. The car would only pull to 5700 and then hit a wall, so I need to reset the valve lash. The graph was also breaking up at the top end, so I have to finish hooking up my ignition system. I have to get it back on a dyno and get some numbers with a clean pull to 6500rpm.
I'm very happy with the Ai Heads/cam. When I first talked with them, I told them I was building a motor for LOTS of spray and wanted parts optimized for that.
Phil told me that I would be giving up HP NA if I went with a nitrous grind. I told him that it wouldn't matter when 2 stages of n20 kick in. He gave me what I asked for, but with more HP than I expected.
The cam is a custom grind (smaller than a gm847 or an LE2) with a good deal more on the exhaust side and a relatively high (numericly) lsa. The part that really suprised me was the TQ the motor put down. 389tq at 4400rpm from a 355.
I'm very happy with the tune too. Jeff sure knows how to make a car run nicely. When he comes back out, I'll be there to get it all finished up.
(And the numbers are with no dyno tricks involved. 91 gas, 17 by 11 wheels, all belts/filters and numbers are SAE)
That 355 LT1 was me. Pretty crazy what a bad exhaust can do to performance.
I am happy with the initial numbers, but we found a few problems on the dyno. The car would only pull to 5700 and then hit a wall, so I need to reset the valve lash. The graph was also breaking up at the top end, so I have to finish hooking up my ignition system. I have to get it back on a dyno and get some numbers with a clean pull to 6500rpm.
I'm very happy with the Ai Heads/cam. When I first talked with them, I told them I was building a motor for LOTS of spray and wanted parts optimized for that.
Phil told me that I would be giving up HP NA if I went with a nitrous grind. I told him that it wouldn't matter when 2 stages of n20 kick in. He gave me what I asked for, but with more HP than I expected.
The cam is a custom grind (smaller than a gm847 or an LE2) with a good deal more on the exhaust side and a relatively high (numericly) lsa. The part that really suprised me was the TQ the motor put down. 389tq at 4400rpm from a 355.
I'm very happy with the tune too. Jeff sure knows how to make a car run nicely. When he comes back out, I'll be there to get it all finished up.
(And the numbers are with no dyno tricks involved. 91 gas, 17 by 11 wheels, all belts/filters and numbers are SAE)
Last edited by tireburnin; 03-22-2005 at 11:16 PM.
03-23-2005, 06:03 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Originally Posted by SS MPSTR
That's why I didn't use names or SN - you could remain anonymous. 
Haha...I don't have a problem with it. ~400rwhp by 5700rpm is nothing to keep anonymous. I was more just waiting until my lazy *** scaned the graph.
But I think I've finally chosen a new exhaust. I'm going to try that summit Universal X pipe with bullet mufflers. Then weld my cutouts onto that for the track. Hope that solves my crappy exhaust problem.
03-23-2005, 07:21 PM
#9
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Location: Columbia, SC, USA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Originally Posted by tireburnin
Haha...I don't have a problem with it. ~400rwhp by 5700rpm is nothing to keep anonymous. I was more just waiting until my lazy *** scaned the graph.
But I think I've finally chosen a new exhaust. I'm going to try that summit Universal X pipe with bullet mufflers. Then weld my cutouts onto that for the track. Hope that solves my crappy exhaust problem.
But I think I've finally chosen a new exhaust. I'm going to try that summit Universal X pipe with bullet mufflers. Then weld my cutouts onto that for the track. Hope that solves my crappy exhaust problem.
03-23-2005, 07:53 PM
#10
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Brain,
When you say loud, do you mean droan or just overall loud? I assume not anywhere near as loud as a cutout though? With my cutouts open, I put a T1 Z06 race car to shame (or so Mike tells me
). I have a few friends with Bullet brand mufflers (they look just like the dynomax mufflers but cost 2.5 times more) and they both told me it wouldn't be bad. Were your bullets loud enough to make you nervous if a police officer pulled up next to you? or just loud enough to be annoying?
I might switch after I get them on and see, but for 35 dollars each, I'll give them a try.
When you say loud, do you mean droan or just overall loud? I assume not anywhere near as loud as a cutout though? With my cutouts open, I put a T1 Z06 race car to shame (or so Mike tells me
). I have a few friends with Bullet brand mufflers (they look just like the dynomax mufflers but cost 2.5 times more) and they both told me it wouldn't be bad. Were your bullets loud enough to make you nervous if a police officer pulled up next to you? or just loud enough to be annoying?I might switch after I get them on and see, but for 35 dollars each, I'll give them a try.
03-24-2005, 06:15 AM
#11
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Mine were loud enought to make me nervous when a cop was in the next county, lol! Seriously, I hated to get on it, cause even if I wasn't flyin, it sounded that way. FWIW, you can't carry on a conversation cruising at 70mph in 6th, its that loud.
03-24-2005, 12:02 PM
#12
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Originally Posted by brain
Mine were loud enought to make me nervous when a cop was in the next county, lol! Seriously, I hated to get on it, cause even if I wasn't flyin, it sounded that way. FWIW, you can't carry on a conversation cruising at 70mph in 6th, its that loud.
03-24-2005, 12:06 PM
#13
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
I'll give it a try with teh bullits, and if they are terrible then I might make a similar switch to Borla XS. Are they much quiter? Any real change in hp from the swap from the bullits?
03-24-2005, 06:42 PM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Posts: 746
Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
If you do the bullets, make sure they put flanges on them so you don't have to cut and reweld. I have mine that way so I can swap back and forth. I haven't run the car pre and post borla, but I wouldn't think it is hurting any. The car made 358 with the borlas, and I don't see much more if any from the 847 on stock heads without an electric water pump. They are MUCH quieter and idle and WOT. I have no worrys about going past a cop at WOT if they aren't looking, cause they usually won't look up. I do need to go get them dynod with that as the only change just to see if there is a difference, but the local dyno shop closed down.
03-25-2005, 08:19 PM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: newton, kansas, USA
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Re: CAM Dyno Tuning Results
Originally Posted by tireburnin
I guess since it is posted:
That 355 LT1 was me. Pretty crazy what a bad exhaust can do to performance.
I am happy with the initial numbers, but we found a few problems on the dyno. The car would only pull to 5700 and then hit a wall, so I need to reset the valve lash. The graph was also breaking up at the top end, so I have to finish hooking up my ignition system. I have to get it back on a dyno and get some numbers with a clean pull to 6500rpm.
I'm very happy with the Ai Heads/cam. When I first talked with them, I told them I was building a motor for LOTS of spray and wanted parts optimized for that.
Phil told me that I would be giving up HP NA if I went with a nitrous grind. I told him that it wouldn't matter when 2 stages of n20 kick in. He gave me what I asked for, but with more HP than I expected.
The cam is a custom grind (smaller than a gm847 or an LE2) with a good deal more on the exhaust side and a relatively high (numericly) lsa. The part that really suprised me was the TQ the motor put down. 389tq at 4400rpm from a 355.
I'm very happy with the tune too. Jeff sure knows how to make a car run nicely. When he comes back out, I'll be there to get it all finished up.
(And the numbers are with no dyno tricks involved. 91 gas, 17 by 11 wheels, all belts/filters and numbers are SAE)
That 355 LT1 was me. Pretty crazy what a bad exhaust can do to performance.
I am happy with the initial numbers, but we found a few problems on the dyno. The car would only pull to 5700 and then hit a wall, so I need to reset the valve lash. The graph was also breaking up at the top end, so I have to finish hooking up my ignition system. I have to get it back on a dyno and get some numbers with a clean pull to 6500rpm.
I'm very happy with the Ai Heads/cam. When I first talked with them, I told them I was building a motor for LOTS of spray and wanted parts optimized for that.
Phil told me that I would be giving up HP NA if I went with a nitrous grind. I told him that it wouldn't matter when 2 stages of n20 kick in. He gave me what I asked for, but with more HP than I expected.
The cam is a custom grind (smaller than a gm847 or an LE2) with a good deal more on the exhaust side and a relatively high (numericly) lsa. The part that really suprised me was the TQ the motor put down. 389tq at 4400rpm from a 355.
I'm very happy with the tune too. Jeff sure knows how to make a car run nicely. When he comes back out, I'll be there to get it all finished up.
(And the numbers are with no dyno tricks involved. 91 gas, 17 by 11 wheels, all belts/filters and numbers are SAE)