No crank, no security light
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
Ok. Here’s what I got
No power on the gray wire at the plug by the tank.
went to fuel pump relay.
no power to coil blk and green
12v on red n/o
0v on white to fuel pump.
Jumpered 12v to white wire. No fuel pump noise.
the white wire is grounded to body ground ?
no blown fuses.
does the white wire go to the fuel pump?
No power on the gray wire at the plug by the tank.
went to fuel pump relay.
no power to coil blk and green
12v on red n/o
0v on white to fuel pump.
Jumpered 12v to white wire. No fuel pump noise.
the white wire is grounded to body ground ?
no blown fuses.
does the white wire go to the fuel pump?
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,086
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: No crank, no security light
There will only be 12 volt power at pin A1 of the body side of the fuel pump connector if:
- You have 12 volts connected to the prime connector under the hood
OR
- You turned the key to "run" and the PCM provided 12 volts to the relay for 2 seconds to prime the pump. After 2 seconds there is no voltage from the PCM.
OR
- the engine is running, and because the PCM has detected pulses from the cam position sensor in the Opti, it supplies 12 volts to the relay to run the pump.
The Black/White (means a black wire with a white stripe) wire to the relay coil is a constant ground from the chassis. Did you check for continuity of the ground?
The Green/White (means a green wire with a white stripe) to the relay coil only supplies 12 volts to the relay as described above: - for 2-seconds to prime the pump, or - if the engine is running and the PCM is receiving pulses from the Opti.
Where are you checking a red and a white wire? There are none shown on the fuel pump schematic on page 8A-21-5 of the manual.
- You have 12 volts connected to the prime connector under the hood
OR
- You turned the key to "run" and the PCM provided 12 volts to the relay for 2 seconds to prime the pump. After 2 seconds there is no voltage from the PCM.
OR
- the engine is running, and because the PCM has detected pulses from the cam position sensor in the Opti, it supplies 12 volts to the relay to run the pump.
went to fuel pump relay.
no power to coil blk and green
no power to coil blk and green
The Green/White (means a green wire with a white stripe) to the relay coil only supplies 12 volts to the relay as described above: - for 2-seconds to prime the pump, or - if the engine is running and the PCM is receiving pulses from the Opti.
12v on red n/o
0v on white to fuel pump.
Jumpered 12v to white wire. No fuel pump noise.
the white wire is grounded to body ground ?
no blown fuses.
does the white wire go to the fuel pump?
0v on white to fuel pump.
Jumpered 12v to white wire. No fuel pump noise.
the white wire is grounded to body ground ?
no blown fuses.
does the white wire go to the fuel pump?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
Ground is good.
green/white cycles 12v for 2 sec, good
key is on to run.
I don’t have that print number. I’ll look again in the zip files
anyways the fuel pump isn’t running during the 2sec so it’s bad then, right?
green/white cycles 12v for 2 sec, good
key is on to run.
I don’t have that print number. I’ll look again in the zip files
anyways the fuel pump isn’t running during the 2sec so it’s bad then, right?
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,086
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: No crank, no security light
Let's focus on one issue at a time. Obviously the wiring and components in the car have been seriously hacked. Very difficult to help you.
You have to answer the questions if you want me to help you. What are the red and white wires you tested?
If the PCM supplied 12 volts on the green wire to the coil side of the relay, and there was a good ground on the black wire, you should have 12 volts at the body mounted connector, pin for the grey wire. If you do not have 12 volts on the pin, either the relay is defective, or the gray wire from the relay to the body connector pin is bad. You have to check to see if you have 12 volts from the relay to the gray wire.
You have to answer the questions if you want me to help you. What are the red and white wires you tested?
If the PCM supplied 12 volts on the green wire to the coil side of the relay, and there was a good ground on the black wire, you should have 12 volts at the body mounted connector, pin for the grey wire. If you do not have 12 volts on the pin, either the relay is defective, or the gray wire from the relay to the body connector pin is bad. You have to check to see if you have 12 volts from the relay to the gray wire.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
Gotcha, one thing at a time. I don’t see much wiring damage just an aftermarket stereo.
This car has been sitting in storage for 7-10yrs and it’s from NJ. It’s pretty rusty underneath. It’s hard to get a good ground for testing purposes.
I have answers to questions, brb
This car has been sitting in storage for 7-10yrs and it’s from NJ. It’s pretty rusty underneath. It’s hard to get a good ground for testing purposes.
I have answers to questions, brb
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
Fuel pump relay checks Body ground to Black 12v for 2sec when key is turned to start Red (12v hot) and white (to fuel pump) are the n/o to the fuel pump. The relay changes state like it should. Let me what you think. Merry Christmas!
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,086
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: No crank, no security light
Can’t really help you. The photos do not match the 1993 factory wiring diagram. Have you actually looked at the diagram in the factory service manual?
If you don’t have 12 volts at the body side fuel pump connector terminal for the gray wire the pump can't run. You have to figure out why the PCM is signaling the relay to close the circuit, but it’s not getting 12 volts at the connector. Reconnect 12 volts to the prime connector under the hood to bypass the relay. With it still connected, check for 12 volts at the fuel pump connector gray wire terminal in the body side connector. If you don’t have 12 volts, the gray wire is broken somewhere between the relay and the connector at the rear of the car.
Mouse damage?
If you don’t have 12 volts at the body side fuel pump connector terminal for the gray wire the pump can't run. You have to figure out why the PCM is signaling the relay to close the circuit, but it’s not getting 12 volts at the connector. Reconnect 12 volts to the prime connector under the hood to bypass the relay. With it still connected, check for 12 volts at the fuel pump connector gray wire terminal in the body side connector. If you don’t have 12 volts, the gray wire is broken somewhere between the relay and the connector at the rear of the car.
Mouse damage?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
Can’t really help you. The photos do not match the 1993 factory wiring diagram. Have you actually looked at the diagram in the factory service manual?
If you don’t have 12 volts at the body side fuel pump connector terminal for the gray wire the pump can't run. You have to figure out why the PCM is signaling the relay to close the circuit, but it’s not getting 12 volts at the connector. Reconnect 12 volts to the prime connector under the hood to bypass the relay. With it still connected, check for 12 volts at the fuel pump connector gray wire terminal in the body side connector. If you don’t have 12 volts, the gray wire is broken somewhere between the relay and the connector at the rear of the car.
Reply:
*The photos are the ones you sent me on a previous message. They match the car. Yes I have looked at the prints and just answered the questions you asked.
I’ll put 12v to prime connector and check the gray for 12v at the connector.
thanks again
If you don’t have 12 volts at the body side fuel pump connector terminal for the gray wire the pump can't run. You have to figure out why the PCM is signaling the relay to close the circuit, but it’s not getting 12 volts at the connector. Reconnect 12 volts to the prime connector under the hood to bypass the relay. With it still connected, check for 12 volts at the fuel pump connector gray wire terminal in the body side connector. If you don’t have 12 volts, the gray wire is broken somewhere between the relay and the connector at the rear of the car.
Reply:
*The photos are the ones you sent me on a previous message. They match the car. Yes I have looked at the prints and just answered the questions you asked.
I’ll put 12v to prime connector and check the gray for 12v at the connector.
thanks again
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,086
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: No crank, no security light
Appears your “red” wire was actually the pink wire in the wiring diagram, and your “white” wire was actually the gray wire. Looking at faded, poorly printed photos apparently led you astray, although they look pink and gray to me. The photos are for a 95 and are intended to show the location of the relay. Looking at the 93 diagram I referenced would have helped you realize that.
Agree, trying to use a phone to read the factory service manual is difficult at best. Maybe there's a nearby library that has PC’s with decent screens you can use!
Agree, trying to use a phone to read the factory service manual is difficult at best. Maybe there's a nearby library that has PC’s with decent screens you can use!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
I don’t have wifi in my garage. Anyways I’ll get them downloaded to my laptop.
Here’s I found
12.6v to the prime wire. (Arcs a little like something grounded or under a load)
9.6 at the gray wire when plugged in.
Remove the plug and the pin goes up to 12.6.
Prime wire is not shorted to ground to body plug. Didn’t measure plug to pump for grounding.
Here’s I found
12.6v to the prime wire. (Arcs a little like something grounded or under a load)
9.6 at the gray wire when plugged in.
Remove the plug and the pin goes up to 12.6.
Prime wire is not shorted to ground to body plug. Didn’t measure plug to pump for grounding.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 29
From: Texas
Re: No crank, no security light
Appears your “red” wire was actually the pink wire in the wiring diagram, and your “white” wire was actually the gray wire. Looking at faded, poorly printed photos apparently led you astray, although they look pink and gray to me. The photos are for a 95 and are intended to show the location of the relay. Looking at the 93 diagram I referenced would have helped you realize that.
Agree, trying to use a phone to read the factory service manual is difficult at best. Maybe there's a nearby library that has PC’s with decent screens you can use!
Agree, trying to use a phone to read the factory service manual is difficult at best. Maybe there's a nearby library that has PC’s with decent screens you can use!
Changed the fuel pump out. Pump turns on for the 2sec and turns off like it’s supposed to.
When the key is turned to bulb test shouldn’t the security light come on and go off? It doesn’t come on at all.
Crank fuse is good. 12v on yellow when key is turned to start.
Do you know where the TDR or Pass Key decoder module is located? I’d like to do the bypass on it and confirm it’s bad.
Let me know
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,086
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: No crank, no security light
I'll have to read through this thread to see where we are.
If you are speaking about the "crank fuse" do you mean #16 in the dash box? That has nothing to do with starting or running the engine. That charges and powers the DERM module that fires the airbags in a collision.
http://shbox.com/1/starter_charging_93.jpg
From the Shoebox guide to the PASS-Key system:
4th Gen LT1 F-Body Tech-PassKey/VATS
If you are speaking about the "crank fuse" do you mean #16 in the dash box? That has nothing to do with starting or running the engine. That charges and powers the DERM module that fires the airbags in a collision.
http://shbox.com/1/starter_charging_93.jpg
From the Shoebox guide to the PASS-Key system:
4th Gen LT1 F-Body Tech-PassKey/VATS
Normal Operation
When you insert the key and turn to ON[RUN], the SECURITY lamp will light during the bulb check. The TDM reads the resistance of the key pellet and compares that to what is stored in its memory. If the reading matches, the SECURITY lamp should go out after 4 or 5 seconds.
When you insert the key and turn to ON[RUN], the SECURITY lamp will light during the bulb check. The TDM reads the resistance of the key pellet and compares that to what is stored in its memory. If the reading matches, the SECURITY lamp should go out after 4 or 5 seconds.