High HP Fuel Systems - Q&A (4th Gen)
 

whats up guys i am having a little hard time trying to set up my fuel system, let me let you guys know what i am doing here big system with
this is for an lt1 engine
A1000 pump
and 13101 regulator
10an feed from rear to front
i have my stock rails modified with the crossover pipe deleted with 8an feeds on the front of the rails on each rail then on the rear of the rails i have 6an fittings welded up for the returns my ? is how do i plumb this on the regulator do i have to run a seperate return line to the rear now or do i just Y the two 6an coming out of the back of the rails going ot the return port on the back of the regulator? thats my ? or do i have to do something else.also the i was told that this regulator is boost referenced 1:1 just hooking up the vaccum is this true?any help that can be given would be greatly apprecaited.
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With that setup I would assume that you are running in parallel. You need to get 13109 it has 2 -6 inlets and 1 -6 return so you can take both rails to the regulator and then one return out back. Your current regulator has 2 -10 ports and 1 -6 return so you would have to buy adapters to get your rails to match. Another way you could do it is y them together and run a 13105 which has 1 -6 inlet/outlet. Only thing I'm not sure about it is running -8 to the rails and then -6 at the back of the rails, seems like it would be a restriction. How much power you looking to make? A -10 feed is pretty healthy.

enough power is what i am looking to make, without lacking fuel or a proper fuel system lets just say i am building big for later somewhere in the 700-800hp(this is why i said BIG BOY SYSTEM) range also i already bought the 13101 regulator so i will have to make this one work with my application my ? once again will i have to run a RETURN LINE all the way to the back or can i just
Y it off to the 6an return port on the bottom of the regulator or do i have to top it off on the regulator and run a return all the way to the back.....

can someone please help as i think i more or less no what i am going to do it but would like to confirm this with others doing the same.

You need to run a line all the way to the back. Unless you want to run the regulator in the tank.

so with the regulator that i have NOW how would i plumb thisthen?€

Based on what you have provided the best thing I think would be to run the -10 feed, then y it into 2 -8 to the rails and then the 2 -6 lines bring to the regulator and then your -6 out to the tank. You can then run a vacuum line to your regulator for your boost reference.

ok its the return part of the system that i am not understanding.....if i bring both 6an's off the back off the fuel rails then do 1 of them goto the regulator????????>and the other to the return line back to the tank?????????????this doesnt make any sense as i would be only returning one fuel rail back to the tank and not both....



--------------------8an out of regulator X -------------------10an feed from tank
[
[
[
6an return on bottom of reg.
l
l y'ed off to bottom port on reg?
6an return /\ 6an return
[ f [
[ u [
[ e [
[ l [
[ r [
[ a [
[ i [
[ l [
\/ Y'ed off 8an to each side of fuel rail
l
8AN FEED AT FRONT OF RAIL l 8an feed at front of raIL
l
l 8an maIN FEED FROM REG.


this is what i had in mind but how will the return work and can i use the factory return line from tank.

Dont know what all that is but here is a link to some pics to help you with it.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...ght=Fuel+Lines

-10 feed to a y block. 2 -8 lines out of the y block into the front of your rails. 2 -6 lines out of the back of your rails and into a regulator and then 1 -6 line out of the regulator to the tank as your return. The regulator is at the end of the system not the beginning. You can run it at the beginning if you want but I'm not sure if you have to run in series or parallel or if you can do either.

EDIT: Found a link to LJ's site. Click on the Fuel System link on the left and then the fuel system for 1000 hp. All those diagrams have the regulator at the beginning.

http://para.noid.org/~lj/

here is how mine is set up, I have a 12 line from my tank to the filter and 12 from the filter to the pump. its -8 from the pump to the Y on my intake. the return is 8 to my regulator witch Im using -10 to -8 reducers to hook up to the A1000 regulator and a -6 line back to the tank.

http://www.streetlethal.net/EFI/IMG_2781.JPG

You have one -6AN line coming off the back of each fuel rail. Attach one -6AN line to the -10AN port on the left side of the regulator, and the other -6AN line to the -10AN port on the right side of the regulator. Attach a -6AN line to the -6AN port on the bottom of the regulator, and run that line back to the fuel tank.

The regulator controls fuel pressure by opening and closing a valve in the regulator, to control how much fuel flows back to the tank.

Putting a -6AN outlet on the rail, when you have an -8AN inlet on the other end, will not cause a "restriction". There is always less fuel flowing out of the rail than there is flowing into the rail, so the outlet can be smaller.

I thought on high HP applications running in series wasn't the best idea because of the pressure/volume differential between the first and last injector? Running in parallel effectively cuts that risk in half.

thanks lethal93ta i wanted to know would i be able to keep and use the stock return line back to my stock tank off the bottom of the regulator like you have your system set-up??

I ran a -6 braided line all the way back. you could use the stock feed line but the stock return is kinda small.

it is but i am working with my stock plastic tank and was going to run a bulkhead off the bottom of the tank but only 1 i was going to run how crucial is it to have a larger line for the return in a fuel system like i will be running can i just use the stock return line off the tank reason being is i didnt want to make 2 holes in the tank.


so now that i have caught the idea will i be able to use the stock return from tank?and is there a fitting from MALE QUICK CONNECT(return fuel line) to 6an i think i have seen it before anyone know of how i can do what i want?


now we are getting somewhere, so let me get this straight the regulator is at the end of the system behind the rails as the fuel flows into the rail first then out the rails to the REGULATOR as i see in your set-up lethal93ta?

i thought the regulator had to be plumbed right at the begining before the fuel entered the rail.

It doesn't have to be plumbed at the beginning, but it can. In the diagrams on LJ's site you can see where the feed goes into the regulator and then the rails. Newer fuel systems actually have the return in the tank so they don't have to run a return line, but I'm not sure what you would do for a vacuum source then if you did that. You could run -10 feed into/out the regulator and then y it into 2 -8 lines to the rails and put caps on the -6 fittings at the back. Of course your return would be a -6 from the regulator to the tank, and most people just use their stock feed line as a return line. You won't need another bulkhead for the return line, just your -10 feed line.

what you posted above how would that work if you cap off the back of the rails there wont be and in and out to the system.

so you are saying in 10 to reg....out 8an to a y to the front of the rails and then just cap off the rear and take the return port on the bottom of the regulator and connect that to my stock or factory return line from the tank? i thought i couldnt do it this way that i would have to have fuel come in and go out of fuel rails?


is there a connector for what i am loking for to use my stock return?

http://para.noid.org/~lj/Fuel/images/fuelconfig.jpg

All of the above configurations are in series. Injuneer suggested the bottom one. In my last post I suggested the top one, except instead of having one -10 line going out of your regulator to one fuel rail, I suggested 1 -10 line coming out of your regulator and then y into 2 -8 lines that go to the front of your rails and plug both -6 fittings at the back. You don't need fuel going into and out of the rails. The regulator, based on pressure will release any excess fuel not used into the return line. Once you have your pressure in the rail the regulator won't let anymore fuel into the rails it will just send it straight to the return. When you do need more fuel it will block the return and send it to the rails for you to use.

On a side note, not to confuse you anymore, but I was always told that parallel is better than in series. There is nothing wrong with running in series, pretty much all factory cars run in series, just my personal preference when running high HP applications.

heres a pic of how i have my pump set up on my tank, Im using the stock feed line on the sender with a -6 adapter for the return.
http://www.streetlethal.net/EFI/IMG_2934.JPG

cool do you have a pic or part number for the fitting you used on the return line up front...?

I didn't recommend the bottom one, and none of those diagrams show the rails in parallel. Parallel means the supply line splits and feeds both rails, and there a return line off both rails (but perhaps Y'd in to the pressure regulator). That is the preferred way to handle large fuel flows. Running in series, as shown in Fig. 2 causes a large pressure difference between the inlet and outlet of the system. The parallel path reduces that pressure difference by a factor of two.

Using a "dead end" supply, as shown for both rails in Fig 1 and one rail in Fig 3 is probably the worst possible approach. You're controlling pressure based on supply, not on what the pressure actually is in the rails. By using the return line to control pressure, you insure that the pressure in the rails never drops below the set pressure.

So in this you are assuming a y in the feed line to feed both rails and run them in parallel? Sorry, I didn't catch that, that's why I posted this after you:

ummm i was going to go with the setup posted by lethal93ta which Y's off the feed and shoots the return back out to the tank.....
would this be running it in parrellel INJUNEER...

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...IGBOYSETUP.jpg


ONCE AGAIN IS THERE A WAY for me to add a fitting which is a male insert to the factory return line to the tank with a 6an male on the other side is there such a thing or will i have to make and ghetto rig my own fitting with a piece of factory fuel rail tubing and 2 males on both sides to use the fittings used in the project snowball article of GMHTP
does anyone have the part numbers to those fittings in that article?

Yes that is a parallel setup.

The fitting you need to connect the factory 5/16 return to a -6 braided line is here:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...115+4294841768

http://www.nonameracing.se/photos/de...ASCONA0707.jpg
is enough to feed 8*160lbs injectors to 65% at least, havent tried to run the pumps harder since im running a wet 100shot N2O.
its feed by a AN8 return is a AN6 from aeromotive regulator.

hey anthony the fitting you listed are to join to the factory return line which is PLASTIC will those fitting made for metal or plastic 5/16 diameter tube.

if so do they seal without leaking on the plastic line.

that cool pic lisa the thing is i wanted to totally delete the crossover tube and feed both rails evenly not one side before the other......

I have a single -6AN line from the fuel filter to the back of the engine, an NOS "Y" fitting to split it into dual -6AN lines, into the back of the rails. I took the return off the crossover line, with a single -6AN line back to a Weldon AFPR under the cowl, then a -6AN line back to the tank. Is easilly supports 800 flywheel HP, running a 300-shot of nitrous and a BSFC of about 0.54 #/HR/HP. As you approach 1,000 flywheel HP, using dual returns off the ends of the rails would be a good idea, and stepping up to an -8AN feed.

Supply and AFPR under cowl.
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photos/DCP04234a.jpg

passenger side supply connection.
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo.../DCP04227a.jpg

Return line off crossover, with bung for pressure transmitter on rail.
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo.../DCP04272a.jpg

Detail of connection to crossover line.
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo...e/DCP03319.jpg

Hard to tell its set up for a 300 dry shot - I like to keep it simple...... :D
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo...e/DCP04253.jpg

looking good injuneer thanks for the detailed pics of your set-up as i am understanding a little better but i am trying to eliminate the crossover pipe up front all together...

If you eliminate the crossover pipe at the front, you would simply add a return connection to each rail (front or back, your choice.... most people feed to the back and return from the front), and run them both back to the AFPR, with one going in each side, and a single -6AN return line from the bottom of the AFPR to the tank.

awesomemly awesome dudes what a thread....


has anyone heard of a FUEL BLOCK that is Cryogenic...i saw them on e-bay DEI makes them for about $100 would there be a gain to adding this to my system as it makes sense to have one.

I understand the idea behind a cryogenic fuel block but truthfully if the setup is being done properly and the return line is flowing as well as it needs to then there shouldn't be any need for one since the systm would be circulating well enough that you wouldn't have enough heat soak to warrant one.

not if the car stays in 95 + degree weather down here......the car will already be heat soaked before i ever turn the system on....

anyone...

Dual -8 feeds y-block is behind the fender well cover and single -6 return all the way back to the tank w/ aeromotive check valve at back of the regulator. 2 filters in the feed and 1 filter on the return. Fuel lab regulator and filters. Not a cheap setup but more than capable of 1Krwhp. I'm running 72lb RC injectors as well.

http://fbodyeurope.org/Gallery/main....serialNumber=3

http://fbodyeurope.org/Gallery/main....geViewsIndex=1

anyting else on the fuel block i mentioned....

bringing it back once more i had one more question does it matter where you plumb the regulator weather its plumbed out the back of the rail or front of the rail?€

all of the set-ups i see here are plumbed going to the front of the rails but feeding from the rear can i feed it to the front of the rails with the regulator taking the 2 6an exits off the back off the rails into the AFPR

this would sorta be a problem as i dont see any AN reducers or busings to use on the AFPR since it has a 1/2 port on the AFPR i dont think they make a fitting from 10an to 6an....

some my main ? is can i plumb the AFPR at the back and feed to the front of the rails?i am just now getting all fittings needed to finish up the fuel system up on the manifold. going to be at least another $150

um....speaking of fuel and all that...how about that tail lamp panel i paid for last month and never got yet? i guess your just too busy to respond to my private messages....but kinda funny you wernt to busy to go the bank and cash the money order i sent...hmmmm..... wtf man?

Isn't there a regulator with ports for feed from tank, feed to rails, and a return port to the tank? Seems like the easiest solution is feed the reg from the tank, split it's output to the two rails, and let the regulator bleed off the excess pressure back to the tank.

What's wrong with this idea?

you need the regulator on the return side so it can keep even pressure in the rails if you have it before the rails your just going to regulate the pressure between the tank and regulator not in the rails.

http://www.streetlethal.net/EFI/IMG_2782.JPG

There are "bypass" style regulators that control the pressure AFTER the regulator. You end up with a "dead end" fuel rail, and pressure control becomes a bit erratic with very high HP setups. Every F-Body LS1 engine has this type of fuel system. The regulator is in the tank. Many high HP LS1 systems convert to the full recirculation rails, with the pressure regulator after the rails, because it provide a much more uniform pressure in the system.

Big Fuel Sys
 

THE FUEL LINES AND REGULATOR SETUP SHOULD BE OK. BUT IF YOUR GOING TO MAKE THAT KIND OF POWER WITH A BLOWER YOU WILL NEED A BIGGER PUMP:eek: WE ARE RUNING THE SAME SETUP YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. BUT WE ARE USEING THE ELIMANATOR PUMP. THIS CAR MADE 572RWHP AND WENT 9.90 @ 139 WITH TH400 AND A 9" AT 12.5 PSI (VORTECH T TRIM) ALSO YOU WILL NEED AT LEAST 85 LBS/HR TO SUPPORT 700 RWHP. AND IF YOU PLAN ON DRIVING IT ON THE STREET YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET A PUMP CONTROLER. PS WITH THIS SETUP WE WERE RUNING THE INJECTORS AT ALMOST 90%DC:eek: