I have a deal pending on an S-Trim and will probably buy it no matter what since it's only $875 and almost a complete kit. Worse comes to worse I can have Vortech rebuild it for what $500 or something? Anyway, I have found a deal on a Spearco front mount intercooler but there is no piping included and I hate the idea of trying to fab up piping. I would rather just have a stock S-Trim intercooler setup if anyone has one available. Anyone?

 

They don't come with intercoolers. any intercoolers for an S-trim are custom. Unless your referring to the Aftercooler. If you already have a Spearco intercooler just build the piping yourself. That would be easy!

 

Ditto. I happened to find a guy selling a decent air/air front mount, otherwise I would have to stick with the ripoff, clutter-the-engine but worth the gain if you have the money, aftercooler. If you have a spearco and the outlets are in the right places if may be easy to make the tubing if you have access to a bender or even to a welder and some straight piping, some rubber elbows, etc. and some couplers from turbohoses.com If you are interested I can build you an alcohol injection kit which really helps on the detonation side and cools the air a bit and burns cooler than fuel as well.

 

Hmmmm, well I just learned something bad about front mounting. Someone has informed me that having it mounted like that taxes the cooling system in general some which makes the motor run a little hotter, partially negating the effect of the intercooling. You all say the Aftercooler is a PITA but it seems like the only right way to go with a Vortech. It is expensive though, true ...and you don't find them used. Sounds like a custom air to air setup would be a PITA to me though. Maybe if you could duplicate something someone else has already done that would make it ten times easier.....

Thanks for the offer on the alcohol kit, I just don't know if I'd be up for the tuning issues as my patience is limited. That is something I need to learn more about ....along with water injection. I just think it would be easier to just go ahead and intercool and tune it ...and be done with it.

 

Well my air conditioning is out of the car so my intercooler is basically what my A/C condenser used to be. As for the alky injection, it's really quite simple. The system is very stealthy and I made it to fit perfectly in an f-body. The effects can be seen without tuning but would be maximized with tuning.

 

Ageed, alky injection is a good intercooling agent. I have an smc kiton my car. I'll talk to you more about it if you want Charlie. Also if you want to learn more about then go to www.turbobuick.com they practicely(sp) perfected it.

 

Sorry but thats complete BS. With my front mount my car ran ~185*. It did hit 190 one time and that was cruising the strip in dayona beach last spring for 3hrs in 80-90* temps.

 

I agree, I know plenty of people with frontmounts with no problems.

 

The vortech aftercooler with an S-trim and a T-trim is more than fine... I gained 55rwhp with it and lost 1psi boost.... I suggest in favor of it.... you do not need a front mount... you do need a better heat exchanger and maybe a better pump.... in traffic... it did heat soak. but hey.. in traffic you are not racing... and its easy in traffic 120F between cars... A/C full on and such... you figure.

 

The aftercooler would be a heck of a lot easier to install wouldn't it? From what I've heard it is the superior way to intercool the Vortech kits. 55 HP even after losing a pound of boost!? Jeez. My reasoning for wanting an intercooler is safety only, as my HP goal is only 500 rwhp. I was hoping 8 PSI intercooled could get me there with my Lloyd Elliot heads and forged 355 w/matched cam. My engine designer says I should hit 500 with 9 PSI non intercooled so I was hoping I could just throw on an intercooler and leave the boost/tuning alone and make more like 8 PSI at about the same power level ...it won't be that simple of course but that's the general idea. Maybe a 10 PSI pulley setup would get me 8 PSI with the intercooler.

 

Well... I had afr 190 heads which should have been similar to what lloyd elliots stockers would do... and... I had a 383... i did 555rwhp with 8psi boost on a mustang dyno@5750 burning the tires on the dyno... I did 501rwhp on a dyno jet with 9psi boost but dangerously lean and w/o intercooling...

SO those are the gains.

 

Well, this is why I have decided to go the aftercooler route, here's what someone had to say that convinced me:

"The AC is not in the way per se', but the front of these cars is filled up as it is. You need to go look at the front of the car up on a rack, and decide for yourself. As you know, ALL the cooling air comes through a duct above the front spoiler. The intake area is probably 10" x 24". No air comes through the grill at all, it all comes in the duct from the bottom. The first thing you have to do to get a big front mount in it is remove the duct that supplies the cooling air, and throw it away. It won't go back on because there will be an intercooler where it was from now on. This does a couple of things. 1) You now no longer have a closed duct from a high pressure area in front of the spoiler to feed fresh air through the condenser and radiator. 2) You have added an additional device which impedes airflow through the condenser / radiator to partially block whatever fresh air finds its way in there without the ducting. 3) You have one more item adding heat to the radiator's inlet air. Think about it. In the summer, you are taking 120 degree air off the roadway on a 90+ degree day. You are then putting it through an intercooler which heats it further and slows it down. Assuming the intercooler is 100% efficient (it is not), the best IAT you could get would be 120 in this case. On top of that you have put that intake air heat into the air that got through the IC so now you have like 135 degree air going into the AC condenser. If the AC is on (which it will be on a 90+ degree day), it is now less efficient as it has less, and warmer air to use to take heat out of the freon with so it won't blow as cold either, and it further heats whatever air makes it through both of these other (2) "radiators" to probably 150 degrees (or more). At this point, you are asking a stock heat exchanger (the radiator), which was designed to remove the heat from a 250 RWHP car to use LESS, HOTTER air to remove heat from an engine that now makes 500 HP. Remember as HP doubles, heat load is closer to quadrupled....

You are using less 150 degree air to keep the coolant of a 500 HP engine at 180 or so degrees.... I don't know about yours, but neither of my (2) 4th gens has any great surplus of cooling capacity to draw on. I have to run both fans all the time to keep them reasonably cool. This just defies logic to me. It doesn't pass the "to good to be true" test. Like I say though, don't take my word for it, go look at it and visualize it for yourself."

 

I removed all that crap 3 years ago when I was running the turbo tech setup. After I switched to the ATI twin intercoolers I never put it back on and never had any problems with cooling whatsoever.

You are forgetting that this same hot air is the air that is cooling (or heating as you mentioned) your aftercooler radiator. Your not gaining anything by having the aftercooler radiator transmitting it's heat directly thru your condenser and radiator. The heat removed from air compression in both cases is coming out prior to the radiator, making that a non-issue. To make this a valid point you would need to move the intercooler(s) out of a direct path of air going to the radiator. I don't see how this could have convinced you. You car will only see "500 Hp" for short periods of time, and probably won't overtax your already overburdened radiator system. 4th gens usually can run alot of power with the stock radiators. If your roadracing then there might be an issue

 

HEHEHEHE, not doubting aftercoolers at all because one of my friends has one and it works quite well, but from this post and your previous posts you need to find another 'someone' that actually knows what theyre talking about when it comes to front mounts.

 

Maybe you haven't had "problems" but your cooling system would work better with the Aftercooler setup. The Aftercooler radiator is much smaller than a big front mount, and mounts perpendicular to it rather than right up against it, allowing air to pass around it and contact the radiator directly. It allows the front of the car to stay intact....much different scenario. Your point about "making it a valid point" further validates what I believe, in a large front mount air to air setup the intercooleris blocking part of the air path going to the radiator ...having an obvious negative impact on cooling. Also, with the air to water to air setup of the Aftercooler you are able to have a better heat exchange ....surely you won't argue that point.

Forgive me if I don't fully understand all of this, it's all new theory to me w/no actual experience and I don't have my car to look at right now.....no offense but the person I quoted still makes the most sense to me by a long shot.]

CJ, just how does he "not know what he's talking about"? Seems spot on to me