1LEThumper

Ok first off I called ATI today about the broken bolt in the blower. Surprizingly they gave me a RA number and said just box it up and ship it there. I have heard tons of horror stories about their waranttee stuff so this came as a deliteful surprize this morning

Now on to Callies


Well I called and after playing phone tag for a while I got a hold of them this morning. We talked back and forth about how many miles were on it with and without the blower, how it was put together, I told him the front bearings looked brand new, and what all happened to the motor when it broke. He told me that after looking at it the timing gear looks like it make just a slight score line around the crank when it was seated. Which is no big deal 99% of the time, however for some reason this time it must have just started a stress risor and that is where it broke. He said that he had never had one break like mine did and that a race shop had just called in yesterday and it sounds like they have the same thing going on with the blown Z that they built as well (they haven't torn it apart just yet). He said out of the 3000 or so cranks they sell a year they might get 2-3 back broken for one reason or another. He is going to talk to Nu-Tek (right down the road from them, they specialize in LT1 motors http://www.nu-tekmotorsports.com/ ) and see what they have to say because they use a lot of Callies stuff as well. One of the possiblities is that they might start making a blower spec crank for LT1 motors with a BBC snout on it. One problem this might lead into is that a special crank gear will be needed, special balancer, hub, and the front cover is going to have to be machined as well for the BBC seal. We had aslo talked about going to a cogged system as well, and he agreed that it would eliminate all of the rolling stress that was caused by the tension on the 12 rib belt setups. The only problem would be a slight harmonic that was caused by the belt to pulley interacting together but said that as long as it was balanced (which Callies balances all rotating assemblies and cranks) there would be no problem with that at all. So they are going to send me back the snout and hub. He wanted me to do some hw on different pulley setups and how they work, the distances that the different blower pulleys stick out off of the crank and to see if we could find out how much tension that blower is putting on the crank.

We didn't talk about getting a replacement crankshaft just yet because we're still trying to figure out how and why it happened and to see if we can stop it from happening again but so far I must say Callies looks like a real stand up company that really wants to get to the bottom of the problem to make sure that it doesn't happen to you or anyone else again. Once I get some information about the blower setups I'm going to call him back and I guess we will go from there and see what he has found out from Nu-Tek and see if maybe a new designed crank is in order, if I just get a free one and start over with a new belt drive or what. But anyway at least we are making progress

So for those of you with Vortech and ATI blowers could you take some measurements on how the blower drives on your setups mount and how far they stick off of the front of them motor. Also if you can get some belt tension figures on the 6,8, and 12 rib belts as well as come cogged figures that would be very very very nice.



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1994 1LE Z28 T56
383, 6.0" rods
GTP Stage III heads
ATI D1 15psi Intercooled
LG Motorsports suspension goodies
GrandSports 17x9.5/17x11"
http://members6.clubphoto.com/anthon.../guest-1.phtml

97TA-WS6-Con

Thumper: I to have a Callies crank and I will try and get the info oyu asked for.

I'm glad to hear that the 2 companies seem to be helpful and given that they only loose "2-3 cranks" a year out of 3000, one hopes they will send you a new one at no cost.

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1997 T/A WS6 Con

383, ATI Procharger D1-SC @15#, relocated MAF, FLP's, Borla, Kenny Brown DD SFC's, Hal's, SLP-Springs, STB, sway bar, shifter-Lou Salzano SS, 5-point chrome roll bar, ZR1 rims, KTRE 12 bolt 3.73's. etc etc.

Best 12.30 @ 121.79- "Traction.....we have a problem"
527 RWHP / 570 lbs.

Mikey 97Z M6

Thanks for the update. I'm really curious to find out how Callies will ultimately handle this, since I just placed an order for their Racemaster crank. Mine will be used with a Vortech S-trim to start with, and eventually a T-trim so I'm very curious what they come up with.

Mike

james007moore

can someone fill me in on this...PLEASE !!!

My callies crank broke on me friday night..

I have the ATI D1 set up....When i called and told them about it, I was told that this has "NEVER" happened...

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James007
1993 Z28 ProCharged 6sp
10.48@136.72w/ 1.59 60 ft

69 Camaro w/Z28 emblems
9.98 on motor
9.07 on 1 stage of NOS
8.40 on 2 stages of NOS

EDS Z28

Sounds to me that there is a problem specific with the Callies crank, maybe incorrect heat treat, incorrect material, or something along that line. When I tore down my motor several years back, the stock hub had gouged some grooves into the crank snout, like the hub spun on the crank. I smoothed out those grooves with a die grinder. No problems yet with the stock gm LT1 crank. I have also heard the mustangs suffer the same problem, sheared off snout.

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1994 Z28 LT1 6 SPD, ATI P600B BLOWER 10# TWIN INTERCOOLED, Speed Pro pistons/rings, PAW H-beam rods, GM HOTCAM Home-Ported LT1 heads, Relocated MAF, FLP headers, custom exhaust w/magnaflow mufflers
Modified fuel system w/42 lb/hr Bosch injectors, Mallory pump, Paxton regulator, AQP stainless braided hoses
MSD digital 6+ ignition, wires, GM 1LE driveshaft, Wolf 6pt roll bar, stock rearend,
Centerline 17" wheels
Dynoed @
478 RWHP & 480 RWTQ
with old exhaust setup
New dyno soon w/flp's

1LEThumper

I don't know what is going on with it right now. It does sound like they want to help out with the problem but I want to know how many people its happened to and why it is happening. To me, after looking at the main bearings in the motor there wasn't a lot of side loading on it, or at least not enough to break the crank.

1LEThumper

Ok I talked to Callies again last week.

He said that it looked like the crank gear was 'digging' into the crank shaft because it didn't have a big enough chamfer on it to clear the radius on the crankshaft (keep in mind I took the crank gear off before I sent them the snout). This caused a slight stress risor here and if it wasn't for the increased load of the blower pulling on the end of the crank it would not have broken off.

Now...I didn't have the gear in front of me when I was talking to him but I went back out and checked it out myself. Its a Cloyes gear and has a HUGE chamfer on it and comes no where close to the radius on the crankshaft. Secondly if it was digging into the crank and the blower was helping it do that, wouldn't that be like them admitting that the crank has flex in it? Now granted I'm sure that the force of the blower pulley is going to put some forces on the front of the crankshaft but enough that the timing gear can cut into it? And if it did wouldn't that just make one point since the gear is turning with the crank and not on its own?

Anyway I need to call them back one more time to see what happens this go around.


Anyone find any info on belt tension and dims?

(Ken) 96 K1500S

Sent you an email on this too....



What was the outcome on 1LEThumper broke crank nose on his Supercharged 1994 Z28?

I too broke a crank nose but it was on a stock cast crank and only running 8psi of boost...it did have 120K miles on the engine though...30K with the SC on.

I'm building a all forged 4340 bottom end but saw your post...yikes! Going to do one of the following may two:

1. light weight Fluidampr dampner (recommend by Scat)
2. Go to a clog belt setup so less tension is on the second SC pulley from the drive pulley.
3. Install a second tensioner so there is more belt contact on the rib pulley.

Here is my post over at the PA truck fourm with detailed pictures!
http://www.pacific-audio.com/perform...es/196304.html

Sincerely,
Ken
1996 GMC K1500 4x4 3dr pickup 14.10@95.5mph with old 350 engine...building a 383 all forged bottom end right now
http://www.kctrading.net/sierra/

Sean94Z

I think I spoke with you before.. I snapped the snout off the Stock Crank with an ATI D1 and 12-rib.. Broke Right at the timing gear too.. Interesting things we have noted here.. I really believe that ATI's tensioning system is a joke.. It puts WAY too much pressure on that snout.. SD-Concepts makes one that is supposed to be top notch.. I'm getting one of those shortly..

--Sean

(Ken) 96 K1500S

Do you have a website for them?

Ken

97TA-WS6-Con

So as i see it, there are THREE peeps that have had a Callies crank with an ATI D1 blower and the crank has broken.!!!!!!!

This scares the CRAP out of me.

Why is this happening.

I would like to know as you can imagine, it seems that it could as easily happen to me.

Any response from Callies. they providing replacement cranks?

(Ken) 96 K1500S

And not just ATI blowers but Vortech units as well...they all share one thing in common and that is they use a second crank pulley! You don't hear this problem with Whipple or Paxton that use the stock crank pulley...have you?

I know of two other guys that broke off there crank nose on L31 vortec engines that were using a Vortech supercharger besides me....now we need to see who's got some high mileage on a high boost setup with no falures and copy what they have done.

Before I hook the blower back on to my new 383 engine I'm going to first get a light weight fluidampr dampner and install a clog belt system, also going to have them double key the crank...I think these three items are the key...as you got to remember a superchager take HP away from the engine...how much?....

With 8 psi of boost after the intercooler an ATI is drawing 58! 11.5psi about 74+HP...running 15psi approx 90HP and when you have a ribbed belt pulling on a second pulley that sticks way out there's got to be some deflection which can also cause some imbalance. An AC compressor draws about 15-20HP....

Here is proof on the HP consumption:
http://www.procharger.com/h2hdt.shtml

Ken
http://www.kctrading.net/sierra/

Sean94Z

Ken,

www.sd-concepts.com


No pictures up yet.. Costs around $400-$500 with labor, you need to send them your brackets and pulleys..

--Sean

(Ken) 96 K1500S

Got any pics of your setup you can post?

Ken

1LEThumper

Well here is what I know so far from Callies and a couple other places. The entire rotating assembly was from Callies and I was using a ATI damper on the crank. The ATI D1SC blower was using a 15 psi 12 rib belt and I was seeing some slipping around 10psi or so. I do not think that the belt was to tight
and the bearings came out looking like new when I tore it apart. I (and Callies) think that the crank timing gear was not clearanced enough for the larger radius's on the crank. This combined with the stress from the blower I think did most of the damage. I also broke the input shaft on the blower as
well but I don't know what broke first. I do not know how both could have broken at the same time. The blower was fixed under warantee from ATI. The crank I had to just get replaced. This was my first stroker blower motor that had done myself so it might have been a couple of things put together that caused it to break but no one can say for sure. I am having the 'new'
bottom end put together by Nick and NuTek so hopefully it will not break again. I am also going to be using a cog setup on it, or at least try to.

If you do use a cog setup I don't think you want a lot of
belt wrap on it. With the reg. ribbed belts you want to get as much around it as you can. Also get a new tensioner because The ATI one isn't that