LS1: twin turbo vs. blower vs. stroker
03-13-2003, 02:59 PM
#1
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LS1: twin turbo vs. blower vs. stroker
I see a lot of talk on these issues pertaining to the LT1 but what about the LS1? I currently plan to stroke the engine to 382, then put a supercharger or a twin turbo set up. How much will the stock LS1 and 4L60E trans hold? What if I put turbo or a supercharger on before stoking the engine? Any comments, thoughts, prices, horsepower figures is appreciated. Also anyone know of a company with a twin turbo setup or a roots type blower for the Camaro SS? Thanks, Brad
03-13-2003, 08:05 PM
#2
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the 4l60e is from what ive heard is an electronic t350 with overdrive so im guessing it can handle around 450hp stock. I know the 4l80e can handle 1000+ hp built right.
If you put a supercharger or turbo on before you stroke the engine is fine just dont buy the right size turbos for the 350 buy the bigger ones you will put on the 383 so you get max performance on the 383.
Why would you ever want roots blower they have horrible compressing effeciencys. they do make off idle boost but there horrible on gas maleage, and youd have to cut a hole in your hood. And thanks to the remarkable design by gm youd have the blower sticking through the cowl.
If anything get a centrifical blower kit. You can go the turbo route but i havent seen many quality kits that have tube headers only log. They still work but theres more power to be made from tube style headers.
The minimal cost for a junkyard (homemade) turbo kit would be around 1k without going into the block. To build an engine to handle 600-800hp will run you about 4k for the shortblock and depending on how far you want to go with the rest like cam heads ect it can adda another $500 for just a cam and matching springs. As much as 4k for poring bigger valves full top end valvetrain ect...
Eric
If you put a supercharger or turbo on before you stroke the engine is fine just dont buy the right size turbos for the 350 buy the bigger ones you will put on the 383 so you get max performance on the 383.
Why would you ever want roots blower they have horrible compressing effeciencys. they do make off idle boost but there horrible on gas maleage, and youd have to cut a hole in your hood. And thanks to the remarkable design by gm youd have the blower sticking through the cowl.
If anything get a centrifical blower kit. You can go the turbo route but i havent seen many quality kits that have tube headers only log. They still work but theres more power to be made from tube style headers.
The minimal cost for a junkyard (homemade) turbo kit would be around 1k without going into the block. To build an engine to handle 600-800hp will run you about 4k for the shortblock and depending on how far you want to go with the rest like cam heads ect it can adda another $500 for just a cam and matching springs. As much as 4k for poring bigger valves full top end valvetrain ect...
Eric
03-14-2003, 08:15 AM
#4
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Do the drivetrain before the motor.
As for the turbo/blower/stroker debate, for an LS1, I'd go stroker. There's several LS1 strokers in the 10s and a couple in the 9s. I can only recall two forced induction LS1s in the single digits.
As for the turbo/blower/stroker debate, for an LS1, I'd go stroker. There's several LS1 strokers in the 10s and a couple in the 9s. I can only recall two forced induction LS1s in the single digits.
03-14-2003, 11:12 AM
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>You really need to decide what you are most into, but you can put a supercharger or turbocharger on a stock motor and run low 11's. I have a few friends who have gone 11.1-11.2 with blowers, converters, full exhaust, and all the rest of the boltons. Ditto for turbos.
>Nobody makes a roots style blower for the LS1, and it looks like Magnuson/LPE will not be making a kit for the F-Body you would have to fab it up yourself.
>I have a friend who went 11.13@123mph with a radical 382ci and a 3500lb 30th TA. So a built stroker can get you down there too.
>4L60E can take low 11's but it needs to be built by the right place, my FLP level IV took my 11.0-11.1's no problem.
I'm doing a custom 348ci LS6 with 6.0 heads a Vortech YS trim hoping to get around 20 lbs of boost. I hope to be in the single digits this year.
>Nobody makes a roots style blower for the LS1, and it looks like Magnuson/LPE will not be making a kit for the F-Body you would have to fab it up yourself.
>I have a friend who went 11.13@123mph with a radical 382ci and a 3500lb 30th TA. So a built stroker can get you down there too.
>4L60E can take low 11's but it needs to be built by the right place, my FLP level IV took my 11.0-11.1's no problem.
I'm doing a custom 348ci LS6 with 6.0 heads a Vortech YS trim hoping to get around 20 lbs of boost. I hope to be in the single digits this year.
03-14-2003, 07:50 PM
#6
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Thunder Racing just put together a 400+ CI stroker LS1 that made 540 rwhp with a solid roller cam NA. That's good for well over 130 mph in the quarter.
Most of the S/C and Turbo LS1 cars I've seen haven't lived up to expectations (not that it can't be made to work).
I've seen someone run 11.2x at 120+ mph with a stock short block/heads/intake (cam and bolt-ons only) LS1.
Why deal with the complication of a supercharger (especially turbocharger) if you can reach your goals NA?
Mike
Most of the S/C and Turbo LS1 cars I've seen haven't lived up to expectations (not that it can't be made to work).
I've seen someone run 11.2x at 120+ mph with a stock short block/heads/intake (cam and bolt-ons only) LS1.
Why deal with the complication of a supercharger (especially turbocharger) if you can reach your goals NA?
Mike
03-15-2003, 03:53 PM
#7
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Thunder Racing is within an hour and half of my house so they'll probably be the ones doing any work, and 500+ rwhp out of 400 cubes sounds like fun to me. If I get bored with that I'll see if I can find a way to do a twin turbo setup. I like the way a roots blower looks under the hood, but not sticking out, or the cowl for that matter. I never thought about the fact that half the engine may as well be in the dashboard. I should have remembered considering I just changed the plug wires. Centifugal blowers and single turbos or nice but a twin turbo would have a lot of wow appeal. But personnaly I believe there is no replacement for displacement. If I went with the Thunder Racing 400ci, and kept it N/A, what should I do with my rear end and tranny to make it hold up? Thanks, appreciate all the feedback.
03-15-2003, 09:14 PM
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One word of advice about building a "race" 4L60E: DON'T.
Many people say that a 4L60E can be built to hold alot of power, but no one I know has had any luck. Angie Skinner (Geoff Skinner's of Thunder Racing's wife) spent alot of money on a race 4L60E from FLP Performance and it's broke. She and I have both switched to TH350's (but you must upgrade to a billet sprag assy). I REALLY like my TH350. It shifts on time every time and the installation was easier than you might think. I only spent $1100 on my install including a TH350 core.
The only thing you can do for the rear is replace it with a 12 bolt or 9 inch. These can be had for about $2200.
You can probably pay Thunder to do the whole engine, tranny, and rear end installation, but you'd better bring some serious dough.
Mike
Many people say that a 4L60E can be built to hold alot of power, but no one I know has had any luck. Angie Skinner (Geoff Skinner's of Thunder Racing's wife) spent alot of money on a race 4L60E from FLP Performance and it's broke. She and I have both switched to TH350's (but you must upgrade to a billet sprag assy). I REALLY like my TH350. It shifts on time every time and the installation was easier than you might think. I only spent $1100 on my install including a TH350 core.
The only thing you can do for the rear is replace it with a 12 bolt or 9 inch. These can be had for about $2200.
You can probably pay Thunder to do the whole engine, tranny, and rear end installation, but you'd better bring some serious dough.
Mike
03-16-2003, 11:21 AM
#10
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Yeah, I'm not expecting anything to be cheap, especially considering I want the strongest of everything. The car is new so I'm not really in a hurry. I'll probably do the rear first, then the tranny, then the engine, with 6 month to 1 year intervals in between so I have time to recover financially. I'm waiting until the warranty expires first, of course.
03-17-2003, 09:05 AM
#11
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I think Mike should delete his remark, I am friends with Geoff and Angie and I recall Geoff telling me at the TR Shootout that Angie's car did not have a trans cooler on it... So... How can her car be a good example of how an FLP trans performs.
My FLP Level IV went over 200 passes on it before it was pulled and inspected (it was the first LS1 4L60E) and then I did another 50 passes on it and sold it.
I am going to do a FLP T400 for the new combo.
Just be fair when making your points, and check your sources.
My FLP Level IV went over 200 passes on it before it was pulled and inspected (it was the first LS1 4L60E) and then I did another 50 passes on it and sold it.
I am going to do a FLP T400 for the new combo.
Just be fair when making your points, and check your sources.
03-17-2003, 09:18 AM
#12
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I did my drivetrain in this order: 12-bolt ->TH400 --> badass motor Otherwise, you'll be replacing something when it's not needed(like busting a rear end w/ a high stall). The best thing is that since the tranny/rear end I took out still works, I can get a little of my bread back. 
I'll never use a GM A4 in a high-horsepower car again. Built or not. I had a friend w/ a Stg. II Speed Inc tranny that had a front pump go @ less than 3K miles.
John, not trying to turn this into an arguement, but why switch from the FLP IV 4L60E if it worked so good? I'd love to have the extra gear on the highway, but not at an annual(or maybe more) expense of $1400 to have it refreshed. I'll take my $1000 TH400 that will last me a couple years and is MUCH easier (read: cheaper) to rebuild.
I'll never use a GM A4 in a high-horsepower car again. Built or not. I had a friend w/ a Stg. II Speed Inc tranny that had a front pump go @ less than 3K miles.
John, not trying to turn this into an arguement, but why switch from the FLP IV 4L60E if it worked so good? I'd love to have the extra gear on the highway, but not at an annual(or maybe more) expense of $1400 to have it refreshed. I'll take my $1000 TH400 that will last me a couple years and is MUCH easier (read: cheaper) to rebuild.
03-17-2003, 09:42 AM
#13
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I'm not arguing, I'm just passing along some info that maybe Mike did not know...
My experience with the FLP level IV was excellent.
I am going from 475rwhp to hopefully 700rwhp. At the new power level the car is really a race car. I thought about running the 4L60E but my plan right now is to get my used T400 rebuild by FLP and maybe do a 4L80E by them over next winter.
My experience with the FLP level IV was excellent.
I am going from 475rwhp to hopefully 700rwhp. At the new power level the car is really a race car. I thought about running the 4L60E but my plan right now is to get my used T400 rebuild by FLP and maybe do a 4L80E by them over next winter.