Rear End FAQ
10-24-2006, 10:30 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 4
Re: Rear End FAQ
The GM 10 bolt 8.5 isn't that much weaker than the 12 bolt. It loses only .275" between the two. The "bolts" aren't the number of bolts holding the diff cover on. It is actually how many bolts are on the ring gear.
10-24-2006, 01:32 PM
#17
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 9,479
Re: Rear End FAQ
And yes, we know it's not the number of bolts that matters. It's just easier to say "10-bolt rear" than "7.625 inch ring gear rear".
11-04-2006, 12:18 AM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fort Benning, GA
Posts: 2,947
I know you had mentioned that its not worth beefing up the 10 bolt. But I have read an article in High Performance Pontiac that shows you how to beef up your stock 10 bolt..... Now I know that a 12 bolt or a 9in is always better but for those of us that don't have the money you can beef it up to handle 450 to 500HP.
1. Take your axle to an axle shop and have them straighten it.
2. Weld your axle tubes to your center section ( they are only pressed in from the factory).
3. Replace your differental with a high performance unit like an auburn or an eaton.
4. Throw some stronger axles in ie. Moser
5. Add a TA diff cover
Those 5 things will strenthen your rear a bit and should be able to handle most peoples LS1 or other apps as long as they are below 500HP. If you have the money go with a moser 12bolt or a ford 9in but for us budget minded people this may be a better route to go.
1. Take your axle to an axle shop and have them straighten it.
2. Weld your axle tubes to your center section ( they are only pressed in from the factory).
3. Replace your differental with a high performance unit like an auburn or an eaton.
4. Throw some stronger axles in ie. Moser
5. Add a TA diff cover
Those 5 things will strenthen your rear a bit and should be able to handle most peoples LS1 or other apps as long as they are below 500HP. If you have the money go with a moser 12bolt or a ford 9in but for us budget minded people this may be a better route to go.
Yes?
Welding has to be done with the diff empty and gears reset/bearing tolerances reset etc because it will effect the housing shape at a very small level. Lets say you can get it done cheap because your putting a new eaton posi in with the larger splines.
Gear removal and setup $250
Welding and labor involved $75
Complete Rebuild kit (new bearings all around) $125
Eatin Posi (28 spline)- $550 due to weight/shipping or tax
Stud Girdle - $155
Moser hardened 28 spline axles with ABS - $350 due to weight/shipping or tax
Total - $1505 and at the end of the day you still have a 10 bolt.
Moser 12 bolt - $1925
Crate shipment - $80
Seems like an awful waste of money to beef up the 10 bolt.
11-04-2006, 05:54 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: MD
Posts: 520
Spinner, you’re shopping at the wrong speed shop…, especially the heavy items like the axles (any shop that’s a moser dealer should be able to do $299)…
Last I checked, mosier’s cheapest shipping for a complete housing to a business ends up being around $95 and goes up from there and you won't get the rear that cheap anymore because of their materials surcharge
A lot of Pontiacs used the bigger 8.5” ten bolt…
Weld first and then straighten it, welding it will cause it to bend some, at least if you run proper welds that are heavy enough/penetrate enough to do much good.
Cute…
The posi is unnecessary unless you’re doing a lot of road racing or autox, otherwise the stock one without any friction modifier will last longer then the gears will.
Moser axles are probably in the same boat, I broke 7 sets of gears before I ever broke an axle and the axle just lost the c-clip button at the end of it.
what will it hold, depends on the use of the car the car itself, and if it’s an auto or a stick. Put it in a heavy, fully optioned TA (my WS6 has _everything_ and comes in at right over 3800# and then add 300# of me…) with a 6 speed and a little bit of spray and you’ll blow it up every few passes and not be making nearly 500hp, I’ve done it with the stock rear, a few different gear sets, and then with one out of a ’95 anniversary car which came from the factory with welded tubes, painted housing, and this one had all the internal hardware replaced with ARP studs and a TA girdle. I guarantee that that setup won’t be reliable long term on even a stock, heavyish car with a 6 speed that sees a lot of dragstrip passes.
OTOH, in a light formula or a lot of the lighter camaros, an auto, with a loose, soft hitting converter and a power adder like a rear mount turbo that comes in relatively softly that sees only street use… yea, it will probably live through a few seasons like that making that kind of power without breaking. As soon as you hook it up hard at the dragstrip, use a 2 step to get boost off the line… that same car will snap it quickly.
Last I checked, mosier’s cheapest shipping for a complete housing to a business ends up being around $95 and goes up from there and you won't get the rear that cheap anymore because of their materials surcharge
I know you had mentioned that its not worth beefing up the 10 bolt. But I have read an article in High Performance Pontiac that shows you how to beef up your stock 10 bolt..... Now I know that a 12 bolt or a 9in is always better but for those of us that don't have the money you can beef it up to handle 450 to 500HP.
1. Take your axle to an axle shop and have them straighten it.
2. Weld your axle tubes to your center section ( they are only pressed in from the factory).
2. Weld your axle tubes to your center section ( they are only pressed in from the factory).
3. Replace your differental with a high performance unit like an auburn or an eaton.
4. Throw some stronger axles in ie. Moser
5. Add a TA diff cover
Those 5 things will strenthen your rear a bit and should be able to handle most peoples LS1 or other apps as long as they are below 500HP. If you have the money go with a moser 12bolt or a ford 9in but for us budget minded people this may be a better route to go.
4. Throw some stronger axles in ie. Moser
5. Add a TA diff cover
Those 5 things will strenthen your rear a bit and should be able to handle most peoples LS1 or other apps as long as they are below 500HP. If you have the money go with a moser 12bolt or a ford 9in but for us budget minded people this may be a better route to go.
The posi is unnecessary unless you’re doing a lot of road racing or autox, otherwise the stock one without any friction modifier will last longer then the gears will.
Moser axles are probably in the same boat, I broke 7 sets of gears before I ever broke an axle and the axle just lost the c-clip button at the end of it.
what will it hold, depends on the use of the car the car itself, and if it’s an auto or a stick. Put it in a heavy, fully optioned TA (my WS6 has _everything_ and comes in at right over 3800# and then add 300# of me…) with a 6 speed and a little bit of spray and you’ll blow it up every few passes and not be making nearly 500hp, I’ve done it with the stock rear, a few different gear sets, and then with one out of a ’95 anniversary car which came from the factory with welded tubes, painted housing, and this one had all the internal hardware replaced with ARP studs and a TA girdle. I guarantee that that setup won’t be reliable long term on even a stock, heavyish car with a 6 speed that sees a lot of dragstrip passes.
OTOH, in a light formula or a lot of the lighter camaros, an auto, with a loose, soft hitting converter and a power adder like a rear mount turbo that comes in relatively softly that sees only street use… yea, it will probably live through a few seasons like that making that kind of power without breaking. As soon as you hook it up hard at the dragstrip, use a 2 step to get boost off the line… that same car will snap it quickly.
11-04-2006, 03:11 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fort Benning, GA
Posts: 2,947
Spinner, you’re shopping at the wrong speed shop…, especially the heavy items like the axles (any shop that’s a moser dealer should be able to do $299)…
Last I checked, mosier’s cheapest shipping for a complete housing to a business ends up being around $95 and goes up from there and you won't get the rear that cheap anymore because of their materials surcharge
A lot of Pontiacs used the bigger 8.5” ten bolt…
Weld first and then straighten it, welding it will cause it to bend some, at least if you run proper welds that are heavy enough/penetrate enough to do much good.
Cute…
The posi is unnecessary unless you’re doing a lot of road racing or autox, otherwise the stock one without any friction modifier will last longer then the gears will.
Moser axles are probably in the same boat, I broke 7 sets of gears before I ever broke an axle and the axle just lost the c-clip button at the end of it.
what will it hold, depends on the use of the car the car itself, and if it’s an auto or a stick. Put it in a heavy, fully optioned TA (my WS6 has _everything_ and comes in at right over 3800# and then add 300# of me…) with a 6 speed and a little bit of spray and you’ll blow it up every few passes and not be making nearly 500hp, I’ve done it with the stock rear, a few different gear sets, and then with one out of a ’95 anniversary car which came from the factory with welded tubes, painted housing, and this one had all the internal hardware replaced with ARP studs and a TA girdle. I guarantee that that setup won’t be reliable long term on even a stock, heavyish car with a 6 speed that sees a lot of dragstrip passes.
OTOH, in a light formula or a lot of the lighter camaros, an auto, with a loose, soft hitting converter and a power adder like a rear mount turbo that comes in relatively softly that sees only street use… yea, it will probably live through a few seasons like that making that kind of power without breaking. As soon as you hook it up hard at the dragstrip, use a 2 step to get boost off the line… that same car will snap it quickly.
Last I checked, mosier’s cheapest shipping for a complete housing to a business ends up being around $95 and goes up from there and you won't get the rear that cheap anymore because of their materials surcharge
A lot of Pontiacs used the bigger 8.5” ten bolt…
Weld first and then straighten it, welding it will cause it to bend some, at least if you run proper welds that are heavy enough/penetrate enough to do much good.
Cute…
The posi is unnecessary unless you’re doing a lot of road racing or autox, otherwise the stock one without any friction modifier will last longer then the gears will.
Moser axles are probably in the same boat, I broke 7 sets of gears before I ever broke an axle and the axle just lost the c-clip button at the end of it.
what will it hold, depends on the use of the car the car itself, and if it’s an auto or a stick. Put it in a heavy, fully optioned TA (my WS6 has _everything_ and comes in at right over 3800# and then add 300# of me…) with a 6 speed and a little bit of spray and you’ll blow it up every few passes and not be making nearly 500hp, I’ve done it with the stock rear, a few different gear sets, and then with one out of a ’95 anniversary car which came from the factory with welded tubes, painted housing, and this one had all the internal hardware replaced with ARP studs and a TA girdle. I guarantee that that setup won’t be reliable long term on even a stock, heavyish car with a 6 speed that sees a lot of dragstrip passes.
OTOH, in a light formula or a lot of the lighter camaros, an auto, with a loose, soft hitting converter and a power adder like a rear mount turbo that comes in relatively softly that sees only street use… yea, it will probably live through a few seasons like that making that kind of power without breaking. As soon as you hook it up hard at the dragstrip, use a 2 step to get boost off the line… that same car will snap it quickly.
11-27-2006, 01:25 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: May 1999
Location: longwood, Fl, USA
Posts: 694
best rear end (I lik'em Round and BIG !! )
what is better....(stronger and quieter)
12 bolt moser
or
9 inch moser
is their another brand to consider besides MOSER??
Where is the best place to purchase a complete 4 channel Moser rear ?
I am due for another rebuild on my 10 bolt M6 car. I spent about 1800 last time around.... I am not doing that again.
I had a A4 3rd GEN that killed 3 7.5 rears...
12 bolt moser
or
9 inch moser
is their another brand to consider besides MOSER??
Where is the best place to purchase a complete 4 channel Moser rear ?
I am due for another rebuild on my 10 bolt M6 car. I spent about 1800 last time around.... I am not doing that again.
I had a A4 3rd GEN that killed 3 7.5 rears...
11-27-2006, 02:10 PM
#24
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 9,479
I would also consider Strange. In addition to the 9" and 12-bolt, you might want to look at the new Dana 60 rear ends. I believe that these are also available from both Strange and Moser.
A 9" is stronger than a 12-bolt. It's also heavier and more expensive. They should be the same in terms of noise. I think you have more choices for gear ratios with a 9", but the list is pretty long for the 12-bolt too.
A Dana 60 is also stronger than a 12-bolt. It's also lighter and cheaper. They're new on the market, and several of the early adopters are having issues with gear noise.
If you have any aversion to Fords, you should know that the 9" is a Ford design. Lots of guys pick 12-bolts simply because they don't want Ford parts in their GM car.
Not sure about this, but I think that the 9" is stronger than the Dana 60. Regardless, we're talking about more than 800rwhp before any of them are going to break.
Note that all of the above are generalizations, and that regardless of what you pick, your mileage may vary.
A 9" is stronger than a 12-bolt. It's also heavier and more expensive. They should be the same in terms of noise. I think you have more choices for gear ratios with a 9", but the list is pretty long for the 12-bolt too.
A Dana 60 is also stronger than a 12-bolt. It's also lighter and cheaper. They're new on the market, and several of the early adopters are having issues with gear noise.
If you have any aversion to Fords, you should know that the 9" is a Ford design. Lots of guys pick 12-bolts simply because they don't want Ford parts in their GM car.
Not sure about this, but I think that the 9" is stronger than the Dana 60. Regardless, we're talking about more than 800rwhp before any of them are going to break.
Note that all of the above are generalizations, and that regardless of what you pick, your mileage may vary.
03-31-2007, 07:45 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 105
I look at the PHP mag. site, and couldn't find it... does anyone know what month/year it was, or if it is online, does anyone have a link?
04-02-2007, 09:19 AM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: May 1999
Location: longwood, Fl, USA
Posts: 694
Oh...going to Next Level Performance to get the work done. I didnt mind spending the extra money to go to a F-body/Vette Shop...
But after, I feel, I got shafted on my Ls1 vette... I think I will pass on mike and NLP.
I spent a lot of cash on a conversion only to have lots of electric issues. And for him later to tell me the old cars arent his thing. But he can fix it for a Fee ?? same guy the charged me to tear down a broke TH350... to tell me what I already knew. IT WAS BROKE.
Real Nice.
But after, I feel, I got shafted on my Ls1 vette... I think I will pass on mike and NLP.
I spent a lot of cash on a conversion only to have lots of electric issues. And for him later to tell me the old cars arent his thing. But he can fix it for a Fee ??
same guy the charged me to tear down a broke TH350... to tell me what I already knew. IT WAS BROKE. Real Nice.
05-03-2007, 09:23 AM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 297
Hey kaliente can you PM me i'm having some trouble with a Richmond Gear set Ring and Pinion for a 69 Chevelle the bearing surface on the pinion has splines on it and the old one did not and bearing won't go past them. I still do need the crush sleeve correct. PM me please.
